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Thread: Egyptian tanks?

  1. #11
    ASL Fanatic Delirium's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    I think those Merkava crews already got taught a lesson in Southern Lebanon a few years back.

    Egypt has had M1s for quite some time now, and has demonstrated a robustly pro-Israel policy. A post-Mubarak Government will, I think, have far more pressing problems than complicating matters with Israel.
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    Member # 3665 Redwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delirium View Post
    I think those Merkava crews already got taught a lesson in Southern Lebanon a few years back.

    Egypt has had M1s for quite some time now, and has demonstrated a robustly pro-Israel policy. A post-Mubarak Government will, I think, have far more pressing problems than complicating matters with Israel.
    What do you do if they get a fundamentalist regime and after a while they see clearly they can't get anything done. To distract from internal problems they attack another country.

    I know, that has never happened in world politics before...

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    Just this guy, you know? jwb3's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir_E View Post
    A (downgraded?) version of the M1A1 Abrams is also manufactured in Egypt under license, but I haven't seen them in any current photos.
    A-ha! That's what I thought I was seeing, at first. But I didn't know we'd licensed them, and it never dawned on me we might even have sold some, much less actually licensed production of them.

    Thanks to all who responded.


    John

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    Hoarding ASL items....... Kevin Kenneally's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Egypt has had M1A1s since 1999. They also built the M1s that Saudi Arabi has; saves on the shipping.
    My Pledge - America must win this war. Therefore, I will work, I will save,I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, As if the issue of the whole struggle depended on me alone." Pvt Martin Treptow,

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    Forum Veteran Nadir_E's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
    What do you do if they get a fundamentalist regime and after a while they see clearly they can't get anything done. To distract from internal problems they attack another country.

    I know, that has never happened in world politics before...
    The US has never let anyone gain a qualitative advantage over Israel. I have little doubt that the Israelis have a means of dealing with the Egyptian Abrams tanks, and you can't seriously believe the Egyptian Air Force is going to last long against the Israelis? Lastly, the Egyptians had a -reason- to go to war in 1973 - regain control of the Suez canal and the Sinai peninsula. That was 38 years ago - some of you punk kids weren't even born yet! They lack such a reason now.

    In 1973 the Israelis let "normalcy bias" dissuade them from acknowledging real signs of Egyptian mobilization. I doubt very much that movement of Egyptian armored units into the Sinai (a treaty violation) would go unnoticed (and unanswered). The biggest "threat" a less enthusiastically pro-US Egypt would represent would be less policing of the border with Gaza and less pressure on Hamas, et al to curb their belligerent efforts. In other words, I don't envision it radically changing the strategic situation there.

    We -could- make it worse, though, by propping up Mubarak and helping him crush this revolution. THAT would radicalize a large number of Egyptians who are today quite secular (I have been there many times and know from whence I speak). "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." -J.F.K.

    -N

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    Repressed Dissident 'Ol Fezziwig's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delirium View Post
    ... A post-Mubarak Government will, I think, have far more pressing problems than complicating matters with Israel.
    Many others disagree; having a convenient bogeyman shifts the focus from many nearer-to-home problems they'll inevitably face.
    Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

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    Forum Veteran DrDeath's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ol Fezziwig View Post
    Many others disagree; having a convenient bogeyman shifts the focus from many nearer-to-home problems they'll inevitably face.
    Wait till all these touchy feely "protest" supporters like Ms. Clinton have radical muslim extremists holding onto both sides of the Suez Canal and have to explain how 10-15 dollar a gallon gas is a good thing.

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    ASL Fanatic Delirium's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Well, time will tell, but I do find it disheartening that people equate a democratic Egypt with a fundamentalist Governemnt. I don't believe this will be the case; the people of Egypt overwhelmingly want a stable economy, jobs and a future for their children. Closing the canal and being beaten in the Sinai by Israel again are not an element of those aspirations.

    Either we believe in democracy, or we don't. If we do, then we should applaud the peaceful protests occuring in Egypt, and the military's sound decision to rule out propping up a dying regime by shooting on its own people.
    VASL ID: Eoin Corrigan

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    Forum Guru wrongway149's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir_E View Post
    The US has never let anyone gain a qualitative advantage over Israel. I have little doubt that the Israelis have a means of dealing with the Egyptian Abrams tanks,
    Well IEDs seem to be effective in Iraq/Afghanistan.
    Plus they've got Hellfire missiles and likely air superiority, as you mention.
    'I'm smelling a whole lot of 'if' coming off this plan"

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    Member # 3665 Redwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir_E View Post
    The US has never let anyone gain a qualitative advantage over Israel. I have little doubt that the Israelis have a means of dealing with the Egyptian Abrams tanks, and you can't seriously believe the Egyptian Air Force is going to last long against the Israelis?
    A fundamentalist Egypt wouldn't attack Israel to win a war. Of course their air force wouldn't stand a chance.

    But it would still be a case of many Israelis dying, of the peace process thrown back even more (certainly you'd have the Palestinians have a go again).

    And depending on how clever the thing is started they could make Israel appear in a less than perfect light. And let's be honest, the Israelis don't take care of their PR even when they act in self-defense. That could go a long way to gain momentum for fundamentalist Muslims in other countries, namely Syria and maybe Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir_E View Post
    Lastly, the Egyptians had a -reason- to go to war in 1973 - regain control of the Suez canal and the Sinai peninsula. That was 38 years ago - some of you punk kids weren't even born yet! They lack such a reason now.
    Uh? It is perfectly normal for screwed up governments to start wars, regardless of whether they can win or not. It distracts from the internal problems and it gives the population somebody else to hate. This has happened countless times in history.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir_E View Post
    In 1973 the Israelis let "normalcy bias" dissuade them from acknowledging real signs of Egyptian mobilization. I doubt very much that movement of Egyptian armored units into the Sinai (a treaty violation) would go unnoticed (and unanswered). The biggest "threat" a less enthusiastically pro-US Egypt would represent would be less policing of the border with Gaza and less pressure on Hamas, et al to curb their belligerent efforts. In other words, I don't envision it radically changing the strategic situation there.
    It'll take a couple years. You see right now the Muslim Bros actually believe they can run a country. It'll take a while for them to realize it's not working.

    But yes, infiltration into Israel from the south would instantly bump up 15.7 notches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir_E View Post
    We -could- make it worse, though, by propping up Mubarak and helping him crush this revolution. THAT would radicalize a large number of Egyptians who are today quite secular (I have been there many times and know from whence I speak). "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." -J.F.K.
    Mubarak is done for and it's good that way.

    The best we can hope for is a Turkey style model with a pragmatic (if brutal) military sharing power with a somewhat secular government. This is clearly the direction everybody is moving towards.

    And the people on the street have shown that they are tendentiously friendly to the military. And that their main problem is Mubark, the person. Whether it's correct to blame Mubark for their misery is a different matter but that's what it is.

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