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Thread: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

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    Member #86 Palantir's Avatar
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    The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    The LotRO Store & costs:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=347917

    Turbine Points:
    Here's how you earn more TP's (Turbine Point) and where the best bang (getting TP's) for your time is located.

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=347911
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    Forum Guru Michael Dorosh's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    I didn't buy Lord of the Accountants. Bottom line this for us.

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    Member #86 Palantir's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    It's hard to figure out with you earning TP's for doing deeds, earning traits etc.

    But- ViP'ers can buy a few things per month or save it all up to get the Expansions for "free."
    If you have a ViP account you earn 500 free pts per month (thats $5 in real money) then at a minimum every 3 months you can buy a new mount or new Quest Pack. (an Expansion Pack will be more - a lot more but the 500 free per month if saved should just cover the costs as they come out).

    For 500 pts every month you can buy:
    2-4 new cosmetic items or,
    1 Hunter Guide Skill (is that one use or permanent?) or,
    10 new emotes or,
    1 vault upgrade (+15 slots)


    If you're F2P, you're hosed...
    A new Quest Pack costs 750 pts
    A new mount 1500 pts,
    A 30 day Mount Rental @500 pts.

    From my readings as F2P even if you avoid the store and save up all your Turbine Points you can't play "Free" past the restricted lvl 50 without using real money to but more points to unlock Moria/Eregion/Mirkwood etc.

    So ViP'ers are actually in a good situation- as long as you don't spend your points in the store except for the Expansion Packs.
    "All that is gold does not glitter."
    "It's a dangerous business going out your front door..."
    "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world.
    I hope you'll join with me as we try to CHANGE IT." -- Barrack Obama

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    Forum Guru Michael Dorosh's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    How many Turbine Tokens does it cost to get a CTD (crash to desktop)? I had one tonight and average about one per week. I also play about once per week.

    Or are they still going to be "free"?

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    Member #86 Palantir's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    I've had that happen to me more frequently lately as well.

    Doing it the old fashioned way:
    That shouldn't change but a lot of the dropped stuff I guess is now going to be "Skirmish Marks" or be noted as "Redeemable for Skirmish Marks" since Turbine announced they like using marks as the games trade Currency. (Which can probably be exchanged for Store Turbine Points)

    My question is will the drop rates for stuff change since they can now make real money selling you that stuff instead (all those mob dropped potions & food for example.) Why drop it for free when they can sell it to you?

    I wonder how the ratio is going to be controlled for the economy in game, for instance:
    You will be able to buy dye colors from the store: White Dye the most sought after color costs 150 TP's then Red & Black cost 125 TPs, in game on the AH they average @250-300 Silver each. Which is going to be "better" paying 150 TP's or earning 150 Silver to buy from a crafter?
    If more players use the store then fewer players will craft "that item" dropping them entirely. Which could then lead to fewer crafters (= less players bothering to earn silver & gold) if everyone just buys stuff.
    I don't think you can use DDO as an example as it was F2P from the start (I believe).
    It will be an interesting few months when it goes live.

    Edit- I did notice that they are selling skills from several classes to anyone & everyone.
    Besides selling the Hunter's ability of, "Guides to ...," (@500 TP) "Maps To ..." (100 TP- probably 1 use) and "Return To..." (@300 TP) they are also selling the Minstrels "Revive" skill (150 TP).
    You might actually be able to drop certain classes from groups entirely if everyone just buys enough "x."


    It will be a glorious day when they finally just allow us to create the "Adventurer Class" (5000 TPs)
    They start with only the most basic skills and from there you can purchase any skill from any other class you want at 1 new skill per level) to build the exact character you want, different from everyone else. (Pretty much the same way the RPG "RoleMaster System" did it- who used it in their "Middle Earth Role Playing "MERP" game which I loved.)
    Last edited by Palantir; 03 Aug 10 at 01:55.
    "All that is gold does not glitter."
    "It's a dangerous business going out your front door..."
    "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world.
    I hope you'll join with me as we try to CHANGE IT." -- Barrack Obama

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    Member #86 Palantir's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    More Store/F2P stuff:

    If enough players start buying all the in-store buffs (easy to get) and then literally walk through the “hard” quests/encounters will Turbine up the difficulty level of those instances to compensate, thereby screwing the players who are not buying the buffs? In effect they will be “encouraging” players to start buying those big “buff” items just so they can get through them? Instead of having to hope that eventually enough of those special items will drop randomly in-game for them.

    Saw some posts in the F2P forum discussions roughly saying that:

    “Based on what Turbine said- if you are earning TP’s during game play you in effect did earn (worked for) whatever you buy in the store even if it’s a hard to get item.” {Translation- if you kill enough Orcs in the North Downs (get enough TP's) that earns you the right to buy that Lothlorien Mount even without having any Rep with the Lorien Elves or going there.}


    “Bring on the F2P’ers! Let them spend their real money to improve and expand my (ViP) game!”


    Some direct posts that were interesting:


    Starting about here:
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=340959&page=41


    “The person who was Executive Producer of DDO during the transition is now our Executive Producer. It doesn't get much closer then that. If anyone wants to use the "it's a different game" line, then please refrain from saying "look how well it worked in DDO" and "it's the same system as in DDO." You can't have it both ways.”

    “The business decisions are made by one team of executives. When DDO goes in a specific direction, which means the execs like that direction, and are likely going to apply it to Lotro as well. We aren't talking about WoW or SWTOR, we're talking about a game that Turbine owns, operates, and treats as a test bed for new tech.”[I]




    “They don't even have to sell "everything" in order to ruin someone's perceptions of the game or their overall enjoyment. They only have to start changing the game 'just enough' to drive Store sales that it becomes obvious that decisions are being made with profit motive first, gameplay/fun factor second.

    Abstract example:

    1) Invent item that will be in high demand
    2) Sell item on Store
    3) Put item in game, but gated behind long/tedious/unenjoyable grind
    4) Profit!

    The players who want that item see their choice as "spend money or grind forever."

    I'm sure some people will say, "I really want that item but I don't want to grind forever, here take my money" and be done with it.

    Plenty of other people will say, "Man, this stupid grind wouldn't even be in the game if it weren't for the Store."

    So you make some content that's unenjoyable* but has a highly desired reward, then offer a way to buy your way direct to the reward. It thus becomes profitable to put good rewards behind content that isn't fun. The concept of a game that's supposed to be fun and rewarding entertainment starts to take a back-seat to a cash-flow machine. That's when people get upset. When it starts to seem like the game they love is changing into a coin-operated vending machine. When "problems" with game systems can be resolved or avoided, but only for a price.

    Granted, your average F2P MMO might be a LOT worse than this. But that doesn't mean the entire player base is going to welcome this transition with roses and a parade.

    (*the content itself doesn't even have to be unenjoyable -- it might be a lot of fun, in moderation, but the only way to get the reward out of it might be to repeat it over and over and over again, thus taking an initially fun process and stretching it out through endless repetition until people are burned out on it.)”




    “My concern is that rather than addressing the unfun grind elements in a way that benefits all players, the main thrust of the "fix" will be to allow players to buy out of the grinds with store purchases. That is where Turbine's greatest economic incentive will be, at least in terms of the timing of the return and the ability to measure the results”.



    Buying Radiance gear & LI's seems to fit that list as Turbine will have to keep adding more & better items to the store or make unique store-items only to keep the money rolling in once it starts and players have bought the standard items.
    "All that is gold does not glitter."
    "It's a dangerous business going out your front door..."
    "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world.
    I hope you'll join with me as we try to CHANGE IT." -- Barrack Obama

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    Member # 3665 Redwolf's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    The thing that makes me having a relaxed attitude about this is that I really hate much of the very grind that you can now skip. I don't want to go back and kill 150 wolves in the shire after I long stopped getting XP for them. As far as I am concerned some of the gating was already so outrageously stupid that they wouldn't have to bother making it worse.

    The only thing that nags me about the mounts for sale is that the freaggin' goat is in there.

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    Forum Guru Michael Dorosh's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
    The thing that makes me having a relaxed attitude about this is that I really hate much of the very grind that you can now skip. I don't want to go back and kill 150 wolves in the shire after I long stopped getting XP for them.
    But actually doing it is supposed to set you apart.

    You know. As a lifeless loser or somefink.

    I don't know, where do you draw the line. Why not just "buy" a character already levelled to 60, with all the mounts, jewellery, armour and deeds accomplished? You could then skip the game altogether and go outside and ride your bike or something.

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    Member # 3665 Redwolf's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Dorosh View Post
    But actually doing it is supposed to set you apart.

    You know. As a lifeless loser or somefink.

    I don't know, where do you draw the line. Why not just "buy" a character already levelled to 60, with all the mounts, jewellery, armour and deeds accomplished? You could then skip the game altogether and go outside and ride your bike or something.
    My view on it is that the quest and the regular traveling-and-ambushed-by-mobs activity is interesting and sometimes challenging. That's what I want.

    MMORPG manufacturers cannot provide enough challenging and interesting content to keep people paying subscription fees every month for years. So they suck those who are reward-addicted into doing non-challenging and repetitive things. Some of those rewards enable new challenging things (like gear that you need to do some other thing that is real content) to suck a couple more people in.

    Ask my boss about what I think of repetitive work

    I am happy to shortcut through task that are clearly in the second category. Anything that is plain "kill 150 <xyz>" I am willing to skip. At least it should have a boss at the end or the 150 mobs are carefully set up in one place to present a challenge. But just going out and killing 150 <xyz>, all of which are on levels that can't kill me, are spread out without mutual support and I can pick which one when is a waste of my time.

    The problem with the whole business model is that user's can't make "scenarios" like for wargames. Not even maps. That's why I probably won't stay with MMORPGs. The combat model is somewhat interesting enough to play against AI mobs. But the combat model is 100% useless for human team against human team play since the threat aspect and crowd control would be invalidated. And even Starcraft II has user-made maps.

    Can you imagine what LOTRO would look like after 3 years if players could have designed a quest area with landscape, mob placement and quests?

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    Forum Guru Michael Dorosh's Avatar
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    Re: The LotRO Store & Turbine Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
    Can you imagine what LOTRO would look like after 3 years if players could have designed a quest area with landscape, mob placement and quests?
    Something like FRUA I imagine.

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