HI Guys,
Any designers (JOhn, Ken, etc) out there?
CG - Initial Scenario Special Rules:
I.2 The Canadians receive three 100+mm Creeping Barrages (E12.7) which begin on turn 1.
So, does that supersede E12.72 where you must draw a chit and roll to see if the barrage starts 'on time' or 'pre-game?"
Well, I'm no designer, but it looks to me as if the SSR is implying that no E12.72 roll is made. Given that they won't continue beyond T6 implies a strict set timetable.
This is not intended to supersede E12.72. The timing of each barrage can still be off.Originally Posted by TankDawg
Thanks,
Kevin
Kevin Valerien
hi Kevin,
Thanks.
Bummer! I hate when ASL OBA rules (per the discussion in the "General" forum here) can really throw off an attack.
I draw a couple of red chits (which I always do) and the balance for this CG could be really messed up.
Surprised you guys didn't guarantee a black chit to for that initial creeping barrage for both historical and balance sake. I mean, historically, the Riley's were lined up and ready to go. IF the bombardment had not come, they would have waited....likewise, they would have kicked-off early had the barrage started early.
Oh well, my opponent doesn't read this board, so maybe he will assume what I did and let them all come in on time.
Why did you guys choose this course?
Thanks,
Well, we hope it wasn't a "coarse" decision.
I guess we "like" it when OBA throws off an attack. There is no sure thing in combat or ASL. Bad timing is a blow to the Canadians, but not an insurmountable blow.
....Perry
Okay Perry,
I will get to the root cause as to why this is bugging me..
With a newborn, my gaming time is being significantly reduced. Have been looking forward to playing OVHS for a year. I have already spent about 6 hours in preparation.
The first CG date, which is huge, will probably take about 12 hours.
I simply do not want to spend that much time in a lost cause situation. I want to manuever and use my forces like they historically were employed - behind a creeping barrage and masked here and there by smoke.
ASL has enough random events and dicey-ness in areas other than smoke and OBA.
The E section rules on Rain and Smoke are already flawed enough and was hoping, like in the case of special 'OVHS Mud' that it could be addressed.
I understand that it will not be changed (although the wording of the creeping barrage SSR in OVHS should be) and hope that in the future designers will consider SSRs like this should have had.
Perry, again, thanks for your reply. I am glad you are on this forum.
The 'why' question. I'll take a shot at describing how we got here with the creeping barrage. We considered a number of different approaches to the creeping barrage. At one time we considered having a single barrage that went across the entire board, but we abandoned it because it varied widely from the 'normal' rules, the Canadians were required to treat the entire battlefield the same, the Canadians couldn't design gaps in the barrage, and if the barrage started early the entire barrage could advance over the Germans and leave the Canadians without any cover.
We then went to the three barrage approach. Initially we considered having a single card draw to control the timing of all three barrages. This continued to have the problem that starting several turns early could leave the Canadians with no cover at all. So we went with a card draw for each barrage. The card mix is like 9 black 2 red so multiple delays are certainly possible, but they should be unusual. As a design philosophy, we did not try to design out the very unlikely, extreme results like all barrages starting very early. I like the historical feel of the three barrages with separate draws approach. There were numerous, independent artillery units participating. Although complete synchonization is possible, I also accept that there could be some variation with such a massive coordination effort. I think the possibility of some barrages starting early reflects this well. In the CG most of the artillery units should start on time. Some may be early. The Canadians have to adjust their plans as things develop.
In addition, I like the mix of variables the Canadians have to consider when picking their barrage locations. How far in front of the Germans do they set the barrages. Do they set them up close and risk them scattering past them or starting early and advancing past them? Do they set them back from the Germans and risk getting stuck behind them? How fast should the barrage advance? The Canadian has to decide where to balance the risk. From a design point of view, I don't think it helps the game to take away the uncertainty.
This is a view of the design process that we used. I think the result feels about right.
Thanks,
Kevin
The 'why' question. I'll take a shot at describing how we got here with the creeping barrage. We considered a number of different approaches to the creeping barrage. At one time we considered having a single barrage that went across the entire board, but we abandoned it because it varied widely from the 'normal' rules, the Canadians were required to treat the entire battlefield the same, the Canadians couldn't design gaps in the barrage, and if the barrage started early the entire barrage could advance over the Germans and leave the Canadians without any cover.
We then went to the three barrage approach. Initially we considered having a single card draw to control the timing of all three barrages. This continued to have the problem that starting several turns early could leave the Canadians with no cover at all. So we went with a card draw for each barrage. The card mix is like 9 black 2 red so multiple delays are certainly possible, but they should be unusual. As a design philosophy, we did not try to design out the very unlikely, extreme results like all barrages starting very early. I like the historical feel of the three barrages with separate draws approach. There were numerous, independent artillery units participating. Although complete synchonization is possible, I also accept that there could be some variation with such a massive coordination effort. I think the possibility of some barrages starting early reflects this well. In the CG most of the artillery units should start on time. Some may be early. The Canadians have to adjust their plans as things develop.
In addition, I like the mix of variables the Canadians have to consider when picking their barrage locations. How far in front of the Germans do they set the barrages. Do they set them up close and risk them scattering past them or starting early and advancing past them? Do they set them back from the Germans and risk getting stuck behind them? How fast should the barrage advance? The Canadian has to decide where to balance the risk. From a design point of view, I don't think it helps the game to take away the uncertainty.
This is a view of the design process that we used. I think the result feels about right.
Thanks,
Kevin
OH NO !!!! We are gettiing multiple posts on the Fourms now. Oh dear - the whole damn thing is broken byond repair. How can we live with this old technology. The sky is falling, exc etc etc.
Of course I am kidding - but for the humor impaired :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted:ops:
Fred,
:lol:
If Kevin would fricking register and lose the 'guest' status, he could edit one of those double posts.
Kevin,
Appreciate the reply. REally do. Still think you should have ensured 'black chit' draw for key opening barrage (like we did in OtO)but oh well. Now go check out my rant on smoke in OVHS.
Thanks again,
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