AFV entry of HIP unit in brush

[Fiedler]

Hi

I'd appreciate the procudere /sequence could be explained to me when an enemy AFV enters a HIP infantry unit's brush hex?

What are teh options? Can they stay HIP? etc..

/S

[Brian W]

Hi

I'd appreciate the procudere /sequence could be explained to me when an enemy AFV enters a HIP infantry unit's brush hex?

What are teh options? Can they stay HIP? etc..

/S

Okay, this is with NASLRBH, but here goes:

1)AFV enters location
2)HIP unit is placed on board concealed (EXC: stealthy units in Jungle, Bamboo, Kunai [I think--although that rule may not apply to AFV])
3)HIP unit has choice of whether to attampt to retain concealment by passing a PAATC or forego PAATC and drop concealment (NA to units immune to PAATC).
4)AFV must declare whether it will conduct an Overrun. If enemy unit is still concealed, the overrun will be at half firepower.
5)All DEFENDER units may intervene now with DFF.

At that point it branches into a couple of different possible outcomes. Consult your Overrun Flowchart.

[Bret Hildebran]

Actually I don't think step 2 is mandatory - i.e. they aren't placed on board concealed. Since HIP is the equivalent of concealemnt, the HIP unit has the option of taking a PAATC to remain HIP (which would also mean that units which don't require a PAATC like heroes, Japanese, Fanatics don't even have to roll & thus never come onboard) or it could come on board and take a PAATC to attack the tank.

Beyond that things are correct - it's an odd case where a HIP guy can roll, but stay HIP and often there's not a lot of utility in staying HIP unless you really desire hiding the strength of your unit or their SW's, but it could come in handy on occasion. And obviously it's a strong benefit for the Japanese who don't take PAATC's and can thus let tanks cruise by as they lie in wait for the "soft targets"...

[Brian W]

Actually I don't think step 2 is mandatory - i.e. they aren't placed on board concealed.

Do you have a specific rule quote for that? I really think that all HIP units are placed on board concealed (with the PTO+stealthy exception), but I am NASLRBH for the next four hours.

[Bret Hildebran]

Come on you should know by now that I never have a rules quote for anything! I tend to browse the forums NRBH unfortunately...

But I think it works out like this - the rule that says your placed on board is the infantry bump rule which does not apply in this case since it's an AFV. The AFV entry rule says concealed units (which HIP is a form of concealment and thus is covered by) says you have to take a PAATC if you want to stay concealed. There is no rule that says anything about placing HIP guys on-board in this case, nor is there a rule saying HIP guys explicitly stay off-board, but lacking any rule saying they have to be placed on-board...

There was a thread on here a while back that covered this in detail & the conclusion surprised me as it's non-intuitive. I'll check for a link...

[Bret Hildebran]

Well I totally and utterly failed in searching. Frankly the search engine here sucks if you're trying to search for ASL TLA's - a search on "AFV enters HIP hex" does a search for "enters" - that's useful.

I'll try to remember to consult the tome tonight for more details, but it's likely 50-50 at best if I remember...

[Brian W]

Well I totally and utterly failed in searching. Frankly the search engine here sucks if you're trying to search for ASL TLA's - a search on "AFV enters HIP hex" does a search for "enters" - that's useful.

Well, I have searched and cannot find anything that would suggest you are wrong. I learned something new today.

[mgmasl]

But if you have to say you have a HIP units there and then decide if pass a PAATC or be revealed, to be HIP has no sense because the enemy knows from now on you have HIP units there... IMO once discovered, to be HIP is worse than being concealed.

So I think the HIP units would be placed onboard, and then roll PAATC according to rule A12.4, except if playing PTO..

I´ve found at A12.42 Bypass: "A vehicle entering a concealed enemy unit using bypass may not attemp OVR as part of that entry or even be informed of any hidden unit(s) therein.."

Miguel

[Brian W]

But if you have to say you have a HIP units there and then decide if pass a PAATC or be revealed, to be HIP has no sense because the enemy knows from now on you have HIP units there...

But if they are immune from PAATC (SMC, Fanatic, Japanese), then no PAATC is necessary.

[Brian W]

I´ve found at A12.42 Bypass: "A vehicle entering a concealed enemy unit using bypass may not attemp OVR as part of that entry or even be informed of any hidden unit(s) therein.."

Yes, the bypass rules are different than the regular rules in a number of different ways.