Looking for one or two new games....
My Soviets in FitE are just about to have their arses handed to them, so in one of the two I'd like to give them another try to see if I've learned anything.
The other game can be anything and any side.
Looking for one or two new games....
My Soviets in FitE are just about to have their arses handed to them, so in one of the two I'd like to give them another try to see if I've learned anything.
The other game can be anything and any side.
Just nod if you can hear me.
What's the status in your FiTE? What critical mistakes did you make (not asking you to disclose future strategy)?
I lost too much initially trying to defend the western borders. I lost probably an entire army plus front artillery defending Minsk. Several Corps defending Riga and lands north of Minsk. I built up the Stalin Line initially but fell back so quickly that I didn't really lose much there. However, I defended Kiev and the Dnepr until the last man.
The next line around Smolensk ended up being so weak from the loses to the west that it fell right away.
After that, I never had a hold on the German advance south of Bryansk. I tried to defend the Don, Stalingrad and Rostov. Several sea invasions disrupted Rostov, but it probably would have fallen anyway. I lost the Don defense rather quickly and Stalingrad fell without a fight really.
The Moscow defense held for a while, but I just couldn't stop the German grind no matter what I contributed to the battle. The only thing that held was Leningrad. It's slowly being picked apart now that a panzer grenadier division arrived on the scene.
The lessons are that the Soviets should not waste divisions on anything but a unified defense. A forward defense doesn't really slow the Germans when commanded by someone who knows the game. Neither does the roadblock theory. A single division without artillery and flank support doesn't last a single turn. I think it's best to abandon the west and run toward Moscow. Once the Germans meet your first line (whether that's Leningrad-Smolensk-Dneprpetrovsk or Leningrad-Moscow Forts-Rostov) the name of the game is to constantly make small retreats rather than allow the Germans to fully engage your line. That's a hard statement to follow up, but it's better to fall back slightly than let the Germans maneuver. The Germans are most dangerous when on the move.
That's just my theory. The Soviets cannot survive defending the west. Even the roadblock theory uses too many divisions when trying to slow the whole front.
EDIT: Status is, I've lost everything except Gorky and Leningrad. And there's no future strategy at this point.
DOUBLE EDIT: Personally, I think the Germans are still too strong in '41. It might help if the Soviet regular armies were set to something higher than internal support.
Last edited by Menschenfresser; 14 Jul 07 at 12:35.
Just nod if you can hear me.
Yeah. How often in history did any division stay within the same Corps/Army for a whole war?Originally Posted by Menschenfresser
Disclaimer: I haven't played FitE.
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you ask me a question and I don't respond, please remind me; I'm a forgetful person.
It's a good idea not to quote me until time has past; I often edit my posts beyond recognition. :)
Interesting. I assume you're somewhere late '41 or early '42.
It is of course too early to say really in my game, but it is looking grim already at T12. Smolensk fallen, close combat in Bryansk with no reserves behind, the south almost entierly open... only on the Luga is there some line - albeit already engaged and Germans across at Kingisepp.
Going back to my end files, I see that Riga and Minsk were lost already by T4. I tried to construct roadblocks in corps or triplet unit size groups, and really ran like mad to the east in the south, but neither running nor standing did much good... We'll see, in ten turns Mario might be parading me in front of depressed Moscovites!
I don't think I've made huge mistakes... of course many mistakes, but no hugies. Don't really know what to do... Desert to the German side?
Turn 30.
But that's the frustrating thing, DB. You don't have to make mistakes to lose as the Soviets. I have a solitaire game going where I pulled back everything possible to a line just east of Smolensk, down through Bryansk and to Melitopol. I gave up Minsk, Riga, Kiev, Odessa, Tallinn and Smolensk for free (except for a few static units in Kiev and Odessa I haven't moved). It's T6 and the Germans have taken Smolensk! There's been very little combat except for the first two turns. I think the Soviets salvaged more than in any other game I've seen. Not sure it will matter in the end.
Riga and Minsk by turn 4 will probably happen no matter what you do--run or stay.
Just nod if you can hear me.
OKW radioed to me that we are not interested in Moscow at allWe'll see, in ten turns Mario might be parading me in front of depressed Moscovites!.
That's only a devious plan to pin large Soviet forces there.
Nice move recapturing Bryansk, I had really not sufficient forces there. My Brandeburgers however have paid of.
And now on the scene arrives 7th FJ Division. Now where and when we will employ those guys?Nice what if touch there as it was never in fact used on Eastern Front.
Really interesting game...
Mario
OKW radioed to me that we are not interested in Moscow at all
That's only a devious plan to pin large Soviet forces there
Nice move recapturing Bryansk, I had really not sufficient forces there. My Brandeburgers however have paid of.
And now on the scene arrives 7th FJ Division. Now where and when we will employ those guys?
Really interesting game...
Mario
Mario, isn't there a house rule stating that 7th FJ can only be used to garrison Orsha and Mogilev?
On FitE mechanics, from obviously limited experience, I'd say that the Soviet units fold rather quickly. As Mensch says nothing resists even a turn, maybe changing formation support level would be beneficial. Then again, as Germans, I'd probably not be able to achieve the same...
Yea, if starting over, what I'd like to do as Soviets is to build moving roadblocks strechted out back on the road to be retreated along. Major roads would be blocked by soemthing corps-like, smaller roads by brigade kampfgruppen. Three things make this impossible. 1: The Soviets aren't Germans and never mastered the concept 'moving pocket'. 2: Breakdown limitations (we're playing ACOW). 3: Haven't yet come up with this explanation should the other two fail.Turn 30.
But that's the frustrating thing, DB. You don't have to make mistakes to lose as the Soviets. I have a solitaire game going where I pulled back everything possible to a line just east of Smolensk, down through Bryansk and to Melitopol. I gave up Minsk, Riga, Kiev, Odessa, Tallinn and Smolensk for free (except for a few static units in Kiev and Odessa I haven't moved). It's T6 and the Germans have taken Smolensk! There's been very little combat except for the first two turns. I think the Soviets salvaged more than in any other game I've seen. Not sure it will matter in the end.
Riga and Minsk by turn 4 will probably happen no matter what you do--run or stay.
Yeah, the scenario lacks some things but designers had to make some compromise... I have a rather large email corespodency with them so I know why they do this or that (mostly) because I have argued many things...Yeah. How often in history did any division stay within the same Corps/Army for a whole war?
Disclaimer: I haven't played FitE.
Now I noticed that they put Stug battalion into every regiment of German Sturm division and that division was purely infantry div. until 1943.
Many German div. didn't reconstructed but in the game almost all reconstruct - logically wise in fact, no objections there.
Soviets get's much more formations in 5.0 version but with lesss readiness and supply. So basically you get division that historically was just in the process of forming and activating! So you choose to use it or to wait to get better supply and be more ready. Designers have tested this scenario many times so they know what they doing. Internal support was put there because of mentioned boost in Soviet formations and artyllery etc...In any way Soviets don't get into offensive before winter at least.
Some changes that were proposed on Matrix forum by some guys are in fact ok for Axis and Soviets, so to not handicap only one side. For example no pulling of Soviet units from Poland etc...
EDIT: Toaw is far from perfect and it is hard to design scenario with whole Russo-German war inside but there is games where Soviet win and there is games where Germans wins.
Mario
Last edited by Bloodstar; 15 Jul 07 at 05:35.
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