C11. Guns as Targets - clarification needed

[Count Belisarius]

Hi,

Currently playing Operation Watchtower HS7 We Know Where They Are as the Japanese and failing miserably to blow up any tanks. Can't get ROF on the AT and despite ambush can't take tanks out in CC. However, my Sniper has bagged the 8-1 AL and put 2 tanks under recall so I'm a little happy

Anyway, to the question. I have an AT gun and crew Emplaced in woods. Oppo fires canister at them. 37L gun so 12FP. Now we come to the point.

I claim that it's a simple 12FP result on the IFT with +2 for Emplaced resulting in a 2MC (he rolled a 3)

From C11.4:

Once a hit is secured (or in the case of OBA/DC attacks which do not need hits), the firer rolls on the IFT to determine the effects on the crew and Gun. If the Final DR (prior to any gunshield DRM) results in a KIA vs the Gun (after any necessary Random Selection), the Gun is considered to have taken a Direct Hit and is destroyed along with its manning Infantry. A K result is also considered a Direct Hit, although it does not actually strike the Gun; rather it causes the Gun to malfunction and causes Casualty Reduction to its manning Infantry

His argument, I think, is that as canister does not use a TH (like OBA/DC) the roll on the IFT is resolved first (i.e. no gunshield) and that the K/2 result applies to give a Direct Hit.

My argument is that I ain't using the gunshield. I'm emplaced and so C11.2 applies:

For OBA or other FP attacks, the +2 Emplacement TEM applies on the IFT

He also argues that the section in C11.5 about the target having choice of gunshield or emplaced modifier doesn't come into it as C11.4 comes before C11.5. My counter would be that C11.2 quoted above comes before either.

Comments gratefully received.

Cheers

Andy

[klasmalmstrom]

Check out the C11.6 GUN DESTRUCTION TABLE.

I believe only Ordnance/Bomb/OBA/DC can destroy a Gun via a "Direct Hit".
Cannister is not Ordnance, as is treated (I believe) as just another FP attack on the IFT - and then only "Random SW/Gun Destruction" can destroy the Gun.

[rglesing@indot.]

Andy: Your opponent does not undwerstand how to apply the rule book. It says in C11.4 (as you quoted) that in the case of a To Hit roll, or for an OBA or DC attack, a "direct hit" occurs if the DR on the IFT is a K result. HIS attack is not any of the three specifically mentioned cases. He is not allowed to extrapolate this application to other circumstances. Only TH, OBA and DC get this effect. Tell him .