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Thread: Sherman vs Tiger I

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    Sherman vs Tiger I

    Did anybody see the show last night on the Military Channel comparing the M4 and the Tiger? They had a live, running Tiger I and 4 running M4's! I was amazed at just _how much larger_ the Tiger was. They had the two parked next to each other and the Tiger looked twice as big. Hell, the gun was 3 or 4 times longer.

    Then they simulated 4 M4's swarming a Tiger. The Tiger's turret moved too slow to keep up with a M4 moving around it's flank to the rear. He had time to get back there, stop, aim and fire before the Tiger could get his gun around.

    Pretty cool stuff...I love to see old machines actually running.

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    Forum Guru Blackcloud6's Avatar
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    Yes, I watched this and it was a very good show. At first tI thought they were going to go down the road that Tiger was the best because of superior Firepower and Armor. But in the end, they brought out the true strengths of the Sherman, ease of production, maitnenance and reliatlibity. And the fact that we had thousands of Shermans. They made a salient point that the Tiger was an over-engineered piece of equipment. I think they were spot on.

    In the end it was a very good show.

    The actual Tiger used was not a real one though, its one of the Saving Private Ryan converted T-34s. But it gave the correct impression
    The tank is not afraid of the gun; it is afraid of the concealed gun." Lt. Gen. Martel, British Army

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    Forum Guardian The Purist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcloud6
    The actual Tiger used was not a real one though, its one of the Saving Private Ryan converted T-34s. But it gave the correct impression.
    Yes,...it was a touch on the small side and the road wheel configuration and tracks were wrong, turret sat too far forward and front hull was a bit off porportionally as well. Probably the same ones used in Kelly's Hero's as well as Private Ryan. A good mock-up, much better than using the old M47s and M48s from the 60's movies.
    The Purist

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    oh well, It looked good to me....had me fooled. Still, it presented the size differences well.

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    Junk Science Debunker The Doctor's Avatar
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    My wife actually watched some of it with me...about 10 minutes into the show she asked "If the Sherman was no match for the Tiger...why did we use it?" I didn't have a good answer...or at least one she thought made sense. Maybe I need to re-think my position on women in combat!
    "Exitus acta probat"(The ends justify the means)
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    Junk Science Debunker The Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    Yes,...it was a touch on the small side and the road wheel configuration and tracks were wrong, turret sat too far forward and front hull was a bit off porportionally as well. Probably the same ones used in Kelly's Hero's as well as Private Ryan. A good mock-up, much better than using the old M47s and M48s from the 60's movies.
    The good old days...Gray M-47s with black crosses shooting up green M-24s with white stars!!!
    "Exitus acta probat"(The ends justify the means)
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    "The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind."
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    Forum Guru Blackcloud6's Avatar
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    I didn't have a good answer...or at least one she thought made sense.
    The answer to her question came at the end of the show when they rated the Sherman as the better tank.

    The model shown in the movie Kelly's Heroes was an "actual" Tiger I and the "suspension" (I am beginning to like that word) was a modification done by the Spanish Army.....
    Are you sure? I thought Kelly's Heroes was filmed in Yugoslavia and the Tigers were also converted T-34's.

    I doubt if anyone would have changed the suspension from a cantelevered torsion bar suspension to a single cross hull torsion bar. This would take a complete rebuilding of the hull if not require a whole new one. Do you have a source for this info?
    The tank is not afraid of the gun; it is afraid of the concealed gun." Lt. Gen. Martel, British Army

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    Forum Guardian The Purist's Avatar
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    The model shown in the movie Kelly's Heroes was an "actual" Tiger I and the "suspension" (I am beginning to like that word) was a modification done by the Spanish Army.....

    That is not correct. Load up your tape or CD of Kelly and the gang FF to the town and the tanks. Use frame advance and pause and closely examine the tracks, road wheels, size of the front glacis plate, width, etc. Take out your encyclopedia of German tanks or whatever books you have of the actual tigers and compare.

    The tracks are way too narrow, the tank is too small in height, width and length. You cannot simply modify the road wheels and suspension from a triple 'interleaf to 'Christie'(dual or tandem).

    Now load up Ryan and his gang. Compare the Tigers, especially the one they immobilize,,...they are the same mock ups. Three Tigers in Kelly's Hero's, two Tigers in Private Ryan. I won't say they are the identical vehicles but the cosmetics are the same.
    The Purist

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    Chief Defender of the Faith ADMIN Dr Zaius's Avatar
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    Yep, the one used in Kelly's Heroes was a fake too, and nowhere near as good as the one in Saving Private Ryan (also a movie prop). There is a Tiger I that belongs to the US government. It was at Aberdeen Proving Ground for a while, but it is no longer there. I believe it is at the Patton Museum, but I heard a rumor it may get refurbished. Anyone know about that for sure?

    I have seen the King Tiger and Jagdtiger up close and they are both impressive. The Jagdtiger is much taller and just as heavy as a modern day M1 Abrams. The Elefant is much larger than one would expect, being the largest vehicle one display at Aberdeen. It's a damn crime the way the vehicles are left to rot out in the elements there.

    There is only one functional Tiger I in the world. It was not functional until about a year ago. They raised thousands of dollars for an extensive refurb, which has been a big success. Tiger 131 is a very early model that was captured in Tunisia by the British. It is in the Bovington Museum in the UK as part of their armour collection.

    http://www.tiger-tank.com/ (view Tiger 131 here)
    http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/






    "I have always known about man. From the evidence, I believe his wisdom must walk hand and hand with his idiocy. His emotions must rule his brain. He must be a warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him, even himself." - Dr. Zaius

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    Forum Regular Caise's Avatar
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    Re-Broadcast?

    Hey--

    Anyone know if this will be re-broadcast? What was the name of it? I can do a search on my sattelite box. I am always trying to explain to my son why we followed the by lot's of pretty good tanks rather than a few stronger tanks. Sounds interesting.

    Speaking of mock-ups:

    My wife and I are hooked on the show "Lost." In a recent episode, they do a flash-back of the Iranian Republican Guard dude going into a bunker. In the background there appears to be resonably authentic German Elefant tank destroyers. What these have to do with Iran I have no idea. Anyone else see this? I backed up twice to look again. My wife just stared at me a minute and backed slowly away making no sudden moves!

    Caise

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