General questions

[1-84 FA]

Hello,

I am new to DA without a great deal of military simulation experience. I have a wide variety of questions I am hoping to get a better understanding from these boards.

Background: I am asking these questions in the context of the DA Blackhorse scenario which appears to be the next one in relative difficulty (NTC1 being the starter scenario).

1. Aviation: I have been trying to get my aviation attack units to attrit the Red maneuver units without success. a) Am I supposed to design a hover point for my aviation attack units or zig-zag them across the point of attack? b) Do I have to plan my route / attack points on a unit at the beginning of the turn or do I predict the point where the Red maneuver unit will be at after movement?

2. Artillery: I feel I've done a reasonable job of employing them thus far in the deep battle. Once the close battle develops, it seems as though my corps cannon artillery is MIA. a) Can Corps cannon artillery be employed in the 'opportunity fire' mode in conjunction with either a CFFZ or TAI or is this limited to DS artillery units? b) If they cannot, can I want to verify if I can attach corps cannon artillery to one of my Blue maneuver brigades?

3. Maneuver unit route planning: My cavalry screen seems to be getting the snot beat out of it, though I am returning the favor on their recon units . In addition, to some extent I would like to employ them in a defensive recon role and would like some color from someone who has more experience on the retreat routing. Second question, during a battle one of my brigades took on a 2 Red Brigades, a Recon, and an Engineer Battalion. In the process it dished out a fair amount of punishment, though due to fortifications and a terrain advantage took 5% losses (very acceptable imo), had average morale, good supply and C2, yet the unit retreated, any explanation?

'On Target'- Motto of 1/84 FA (LAR)

[Deltapooh]

Welcome 1-84 FA.

My first advice is to download the Decisive Action Primers available. The best of these IMHO, is the CGSC Primer released by CPangracs

http://www.warfarehq.com/archives/showthread.php?t=387

Additional documents are provided at HPS Sim Main Download

Also don't forget to patch up to version 2.0.0.3

1. Aviation: I have been trying to get my aviation attack units to attrit the Red maneuver units without success. a) Am I supposed to design a hover point for my aviation attack units or zig-zag them across the point of attack? b) Do I have to plan my route / attack points on a unit at the beginning of the turn or do I predict the point where the Red maneuver unit will be at after movement?

For your attack helicopters, you need only plan a path to and from the target area. I strongly advice you though to first assign the attack helicopters to an NAI with TAI nearby. Furthermore designate priority targets.

Why?

NAI makes it possible for attack helicopters to attack their target safely (Unless ADA is in the vicinity or path intersects enemy units outside of NAI). The TAI increases the amount of damage they inflict. Finally, assigning them priority targets gives them something to attack.

You can plan helicopter attacks without NAIs, but it takes careful planning. Get too close, and the enemy force can work over your helicopters. Path ends too far away, and they don't shoot.

Since any movement of a helicopter consumes 50% of their supply, it's not practical to allow them to hover.

UAVs work differently. You want to plan a zig-zag path that works toward your friendly forces. The path should be tight to maximize observation. You can also order UAVs to hover since they don't consume any supplies. Of course, the enemy is more likely to take them out.

Paths are not required for air strikes and bombers. You can assign them to a TAI, but I don't.

2. Artillery: I feel I've done a reasonable job of employing them thus far in the deep battle. Once the close battle develops, it seems as though my corps cannon artillery is MIA. a) Can Corps cannon artillery be employed in the 'opportunity fire' mode in conjunction with either a CFFZ or TAI or is this limited to DS artillery units? b) If they cannot, can I want to verify if I can attach corps cannon artillery to one of my Blue maneuver brigades?

a.) Corps artillery can be assigned to CFFZ or TAIs like Division artillery. However, an artillery unit only fires on a CFFZ if they are in Counterfire mode. Opportunity Fire mode works with TAIs

b.) You can. Just change the click on the unit properties and select one of the available HQ's. You can also click on the desired HQ, and click the attach button, find the artillery unit and select them.

You might want to do this before the first turn. Every once and a while, when I try to shift artillery unit HQ's during the game, I get a runtime error, and the game crashes.

I usually assign Corps Cannon artillery to lower brigades echelons whenever possible. I elect to keep MLRS under division or corps control.

I should point out that the unit you want to assign can only be tasked to a echelon above it. For example: You can't assign an Artillery brigade to an Infantry Battalion or Infantry brigade.

3. Maneuver unit route planning: My cavalry screen seems to be getting the snot beat out of it, though I am returning the favor on their recon units . In addition, to some extent I would like to employ them in a defensive recon role and would like some color from someone who has more experience on the retreat routing. Second question, during a battle one of my brigades took on a 2 Red Brigades, a Recon, and an Engineer Battalion. In the process it dished out a fair amount of punishment, though due to fortifications and a terrain advantage took 5% losses (very acceptable imo), had average morale, good supply and C2, yet the unit retreated, any explanation?

I haven't played with the retreat route. So I am of no help in that area.

As for the second question, what was your "Maximum loss" percentage set to? At the bottom of the unit property page, there is the Retreat parameters. On the left side is the maximum loss option. The pull down tab allows you to set the max loss for that unit between 1%, 3%, 5%, 10%, 20%, and 30%. If your unit was set to retreat after suffering 5% losses, that's why they fell back.

Another point to keep in mind is that your brigade had at least four battles. Each enemy unit that crossed its footprint were engaged individually. While they might have lost 5% per unit. 4x 5% would equal 20% losses. Of course, I think the enemy engineer and recon could could not exact 5% losses against a brigade.

Hopes this helps.

[1-84 FA]

Delta,

Your help is much appreciated, and after much experimentation I have finally successfully defeated the Blackhorse scenario and had some additional (tactical) questions, and comments.

Comment: The Blue forces seem to have no clue what counterbattery is in this particular scenario. My mech division is getting 6 additional arty battalions, show some love and give me a TAB battery also .

Questions: The Red AI units press very hard, actually doing a reasonable impression of likely Soviet steamroller/OMG tactics.

Air Attacks: The priority I've used is to attack ADA, RECON, specialty (EW/Engineer), HQ, CSS. Is this an appropriate ATO order? In my experience using air power on combat units is a futile effort when at or near full strength, supply, morale. With significantly degraded capabilities (60% - 65%, low supply, and average to below average morale) to these units, I've found they are very vulnerable.

EW: To attach or not attach to a combat brigade? I have not thus far, because I can change the orders for them versus however the Blue AI employs them.

Counterbattery: Specifically, my corps MLRS units a) don't seem to do counterfire (though I do like there SEAD capabilities), and the information I've seen thus far indicates that Opportunity Fire is not productive. Any color to offer in order to get better counterfire opportunities. I'm a big fan of cutting down the artillery disparity to give my maneuver units additional freedom of movement.

Maneuver Units: One of the most difficult things has been the ability to rotate units out of immediate combat to rest and lose the suppression that they acquire in combat. Any color or suggestions etc?

'On Target'- Motto of 1/84 FA (LAR)

[Deltapooh]

Comment: The Blue forces seem to have no clue what counterbattery is in this particular scenario. My mech division is getting 6 additional arty battalions, show some love and give me a TAB battery also .

I forgot to mention the Counterfire Target Acquisition (CTA) Percentage. This help determine if your artillery in Counterfire role can acquire enemy artillery to target. This is set by the scenario editor.

The reason why your Blue Forces in Blackhorse.sce didn't want to follow your orders is because Jim Lunsford set CTA Percentage to 20% Blue 50% Red!

Questions:Air Attacks: The priority I've used is to attack ADA, RECON, specialty (EW/Engineer), HQ, CSS. Is this an appropriate ATO order? In my experience using air power on combat units is a futile effort when at or near full strength, supply, morale. With significantly degraded capabilities (60% - 65%, low supply, and average to below average morale) to these units, I've found they are very vulnerable.

I usually reserve by daily ATO for similar forces to your list. I don't really find airstrikes to be very effective against mechanized infantry and armor above company level. I sometimes hit enemy combat units in support of an attack to suppress them, but not always.

Attack Helicopters are a different story. Sending them against armor can make the bad guy feel pain.

EW: To attach or not attach to a combat brigade? I have not thus far, because I can change the orders for them versus however the Blue AI employs them.

You might want to attach the unit to a Brigade HQ. Their purpose is to attack enemy forces to degrade C2 (when in attack mode) and locate enemy forces by intercepting communications. You can keep them assigned to division HQ. The reason why I suggest attaching to a brigade HQ has to do more with maintaining a good C2 status for the EW unit more than anything else. I try to keep them forward to maximize their range.

Maneuver Units: One of the most difficult things has been the ability to rotate units out of immediate combat to rest and lose the suppression that they acquire in combat. Any color or suggestions etc?

Not to my knowledge. You can set the maximum loss percentage to low to help ensure they don't loose too much. There is no easier way. (If you want to call it an option.)

[James Sterrett]

Air Attacks: The priority I've used is to attack ADA, RECON, specialty (EW/Engineer), HQ, CSS. Is this an appropriate ATO order?

I'd change that a bit:

ADA: Drop this from the list, unless you have boatloads of airpower - because you attack ADA in order to give your airpower an easier ride. It's more efficient, when possible, to use artillery in SEAD to suppress the key air defence units, and use your airpower to hit what you really care about.

My top three targets, in no especial order, are: Arty, HQ, CSS. Losing any of these is extremely painful (no fire support, no supply, no command) and they are far easier to hurt than the maneuver units. Arty is a bit lower on the list.

However, if the situation is bad, and the enemy's punching through somewhere.... dump a lot of airstrikes on a key maneuver unit.

[Sniper]

Gents,

I have also just purchased DA. I'm having some problems placing SEAD and CFFZ targets. If I try to place a target to close to an OPFOR unit or a group of units, the mouse click brings up the unit info instead of placing the target. If I click near or on top of one of my units, it places the target just fine (I obviously don't want it there ) Am I doing something wrong or is this just 'touchiness' of the program?

Randy

[Deltapooh]

Gents,

I have also just purchased DA. I'm having some problems placing SEAD and CFFZ targets. If I try to place a target to close to an OPFOR unit or a group of units, the mouse click brings up the unit info instead of placing the target. If I click near or on top of one of my units, it places the target just fine (I obviously don't want it there ) Am I doing something wrong or is this just 'touchiness' of the program?

Randy

I experience the same issue. It is just the program. Fortunately, you don't need to place the markers directly over an unit. Just make sure the footprint of the marker intersects the footprint of the enemy unit.

[CPangracs]

Hello,

I am new to DA without a great deal of military simulation experience. I have a wide variety of questions I am hoping to get a better understanding from these boards.

Background: I am asking these questions in the context of the DA Blackhorse scenario which appears to be the next one in relative difficulty (NTC1 being the starter scenario).

1. Aviation: I have been trying to get my aviation attack units to attrit the Red maneuver units without success. a) Am I supposed to design a hover point for my aviation attack units or zig-zag them across the point of attack? b) Do I have to plan my route / attack points on a unit at the beginning of the turn or do I predict the point where the Red maneuver unit will be at after movement?

2. Artillery: I feel I've done a reasonable job of employing them thus far in the deep battle. Once the close battle develops, it seems as though my corps cannon artillery is MIA. a) Can Corps cannon artillery be employed in the 'opportunity fire' mode in conjunction with either a CFFZ or TAI or is this limited to DS artillery units? b) If they cannot, can I want to verify if I can attach corps cannon artillery to one of my Blue maneuver brigades?

3. Maneuver unit route planning: My cavalry screen seems to be getting the snot beat out of it, though I am returning the favor on their recon units . In addition, to some extent I would like to employ them in a defensive recon role and would like some color from someone who has more experience on the retreat routing. Second question, during a battle one of my brigades took on a 2 Red Brigades, a Recon, and an Engineer Battalion. In the process it dished out a fair amount of punishment, though due to fortifications and a terrain advantage took 5% losses (very acceptable imo), had average morale, good supply and C2, yet the unit retreated, any explanation?

'On Target'- Motto of 1/84 FA (LAR)

1. Your helo unit's footprint MUST pass through the footprint of a TAI to allow the unit to go "weapons free" from "weapon's hold". Be advised that having an attack occur with the unit you are attacking NOT touching a TAI will result in decreased effectiveness of your helo attack. This necessitates planning and coordination of forces, which can be done by correctly guessing the location and type of unit when you plan your attack, and have it planned to begin when a certain unit type enters the NAI so that your helo unit engages when the enemy unit is in the TAI. Phew, yeah, I know this is a bit confusing, but believe it or not, DA is one of the most realistic Division-level and above game out there today, mostly due to the efforts of the Simulations Team here!

2. As soon as you "attach" an arty unit directly to a brigade or battalion, it is no longer visible or controllable by the player until it is detached again. Whille attached, the DS role is automatic. Yes, you should be able to use your corps-level arty (MLRS) and such, as long as they are kept as a seperate entity and not given any other specific role such as SEAD or Counterfire.

3. Planning a retreat route is ONLY available to units in the defensive role,...i.e., you cannot have a unit attacking along a route AND have a retreat route. As for the unit that only sustained 5% losses, not sure why it retreated, unless you gave it a retreat route and the loss limit for that unit was set to 95% instead of the default, which I think is either 75 or 80%. The best thing to do is to take the autosave file for the turn in which you have questions and send it directly to the support email address which should be in the game packaging/manual somewhere. You can even send it to me so I can run it and see what happened, as long as it's not a code error, I should be able to replicate it and give more insight. Send it to curt.pangracs@leavenworth.army.mil

Hope this all helps you enjoy the game more!

Curt

[CPangracs]

Gents,

I have also just purchased DA. I'm having some problems placing SEAD and CFFZ targets. If I try to place a target to close to an OPFOR unit or a group of units, the mouse click brings up the unit info instead of placing the target. If I click near or on top of one of my units, it places the target just fine (I obviously don't want it there ) Am I doing something wrong or is this just 'touchiness' of the program?

Randy

This is NOT a bug! SEAD and CFFZ areas are planning tools - it represents assigning a PRIORITY to an AREA. In real life, you can't expect to be able to call in immediate fire or SEAD from the designated units, these are merely planning factors. Remember the level of the game you are dealing with here.

You place a CFFZ in an area you expect a certain type of unit to enter, much like using NAI's and TAI's. The SEAD marker is used for expected ADA units OR found ADA units.

Now, the key thing to remember is that there is no NEED to place either of these icons ON the unit! Only the unit footprint needs to intersect the icon's footprint for any effects to occur! Instead of trying to place them directly on the icon, click on the unit, observe its footprint, then you can safely place the marker(s) within 1 km of the edge of that footprint!

Hope this helps.

Curt

[CPangracs]

EW: To attach or not attach to a combat brigade? I have not thus far, because I can change the orders for them versus however the Blue AI employs them.

Do NOT attach EW to a combat brigade! if you do, you caqnnot effectively change their collection/projection status and have to keep attaching and detaching! Also, all units in an "aggregate" unit have damage received spread theoughout all units, and EW units have little combat power to begin with! Best thing to do is keep an EW unit close enough to the brigade you want to support and maybe protect it with a small combat unit and some ADA if you can. I've found that effective use of EW can SERIOUSLY effect the enemy!

Counterbattery: Specifically, my corps MLRS units a) don't seem to do counterfire (though I do like there SEAD capabilities), and the information I've seen thus far indicates that Opportunity Fire is not productive. Any color to offer in order to get better counterfire opportunities. I'm a big fan of cutting down the artillery disparity to give my maneuver units additional freedom of movement.

First, look to see if the unit is built correctly! Often, what you will think is a corp arty is actually a HQ with no inherent combat power! Also, all targets must be within its range for counterbattery fire. Personally, I prefer using my 155 for the counterfire mission and my MLRS for the deep strike. Again, ensure you have a great deal of ADA around any MLRS or other separate arty units, as the enemy AI will pound the living crap out of it every turn!

Maneuver Units: One of the most difficult things has been the ability to rotate units out of immediate combat to rest and lose the suppression that they acquire in combat. Any color or suggestions etc?

Not sure what the problem is here. I guess the best thing you could do is ensure your follow-on units are close enough to get into position to block the advance of enemy units as the unit you want to rest leaves the FLOT or FEBA, or whatever they call it these days. A successful rearguard action is difficult to pull-off in real life too!

All the best,

Curt