VASL Support

[Tuomo]

Branching off from the "new tournament diceroller" thread to talk about the current state of VASL support.

BLUF - Yes, we could use more bodies. I've done a D-level job of keeping up with it, and for that I apologize.What we really need is one person to close the loop between user feedback (bugs, suggestions, questions) and the developers (Code Gnomes, Map Elves, Counter Trolls). Whatever tools they use to implement that is their call - I've talked about UserVoice as an option. As I've explained elsewhere, we need someone dedicated to the job.

IMO we could also use another Trollf (hybrid Troll-Elf) who could help us keep up with the flow of product, but if we could only get one person, it's that gap-closer above.

I'd like this thread to talk about the options we have here.

But first, I want to throw a flag:

now it's time to explain something more about the reasons why I have implemented the controversial webcam rule. ... (snip)

Hm. I don't remember Enrico contacting me about this. If so, I apologize. I'd like to think I'd realize the seriousness of what he's talking about and elevate it appropriately, but who knows, maybe I muffed it.

However, it sounds like Enrico talked to Counterman, which would explain the lack of response. I'm not going to harp on Jeffrey (Counterman); he's taking a WELL deserved sabbatical from the game and the fact that we miss him so much indicates how much he did for us. For everyone concerned, I wouldn't expect Counterman to come walking through the door and make everything just like it was before - it'd be great if that happened, but let's not plan on it. Let the guy lead his own life.

If Enrico didn't talk to me, though, I wish he had. I realize I haven't been able to keep up with support duties as well as I'd like (and I've been pretty open about that in several threads here), but yeah, c'mon guys, how is it we're having a discussion on VASL support and I haven't heard diddly-poo about it until now? Nothing via Gamesquad email or my well-publicized personal email? WTH?

Yes, I realize that this is itself a good example of where we are - I don't/can't always read every thread every day, and if nothing happens because I didn't see it, then clearly we're "thin at that position". So yes, I'm happy to engage with this, but c'mon - I'm not that hard to get a hold of. I'm gonna call a 10-yd penalty, but let's replay the down.

[ecz]

Branching off from the "new tournament diceroller" thread to talk about the current state of VASL support.

BLUF - Yes, we could use more bodies. I've done a D-level job of keeping up with it, and for that I apologize.What we really need is one person to close the loop between user feedback (bugs, suggestions, questions) and the developers (Code Gnomes, Map Elves, Counter Trolls). Whatever tools they use to implement that is their call - I've talked about UserVoice as an option. As I've explained elsewhere, we need someone dedicated to the job.

IMO we could also use another Trollf (hybrid Troll-Elf) who could help us keep up with the flow of product, but if we could only get one person, it's that gap-closer above.

I'd like this thread to talk about the options we have here.

But first, I want to throw a flag:



Hm. I don't remember Enrico contacting me about this. If so, I apologize. I'd like to think I'd realize the seriousness of what he's talking about and elevate it appropriately, but who knows, maybe I muffed it.

However, it sounds like Enrico talked to Counterman, which would explain the lack of response. I'm not going to harp on Jeffrey (Counterman); he's taking a WELL deserved sabbatical from the game and the fact that we miss him so much indicates how much he did for us. For everyone concerned, I wouldn't expect Counterman to come walking through the door and make everything just like it was before - it'd be great if that happened, but let's not plan on it. Let the guy lead his own life.

If Enrico didn't talk to me, though, I wish he had. I realize I haven't been able to keep up with support duties as well as I'd like (and I've been pretty open about that in several threads here), but yeah, c'mon guys, how is it we're having a discussion on VASL support and I haven't heard diddly-poo about it until now? Nothing via Gamesquad email or my well-publicized personal email? WTH?

Yes, I realize that this is itself a good example of where we are - I don't/can't always read every thread every day, and if nothing happens because I didn't see it, then clearly we're "thin at that position". So yes, I'm happy to engage with this, but c'mon - I'm not that hard to get a hold of. I'm gonna call a 10-yd penalty, but let's replay the down.

Tom,
I have contacted CountemanCX and not you for many reasons. The main, in not particular order are :

1) CountermanCX was apparently more involved (in my opinion) in VASL/VASSAL than you because I imagine you as an "artist" working to refine counters, boards and the general look of the VASL, while Jeffrey has more to do with the engine and the structure of the VASL. At least this is how I perceive things.
2) you were in VASLeague and Jeffrey not . Then, I imagined that discovering how easy is alter the VASL bot could hurt you more than Jeffrey and turn off the fun from you as happened to me.
3) I decided to keep private as more as possible this fact. So I had to limit people informed.

That said I know that CountermanCX reported to the VASL Gods the iussue and thus I hoped in a happy end in a few months. This did not happened, and after a few weeks he disappeared.
Thus I figured that the VASL Gods ignored the problem or it was not fixable. In either cases good reasons to keep the iussue private.

Sorry if I did not make the best choice, but I wish the gods had found a way fix to this VASL/VASSAL problem one year ago. With all the due respect for those who disagree, my priority is find a way to have secure DR/dr for VASL. And today, after the iussue has been made public, I'm sad that nobody, in the position to act, has not yet declared that is actively working to change the way DR are managed in VASL to avoid any manomission by an unscrupulous cheeater.

[Fred Ingram]

CountermanCX was my point of reference when I discovered the uprotected dice BOT object as well. He seemed concerned but nothing ever happened.

How many of the gnomes, elves, etc are there - or is it just Tuomo at this point ????

[Tuomo]

Enrico - fair enough, and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh before. Didn't realize you had been keeping an eye on this for so long.

I don't think your point #1 is accurate now, though. And to answer Fred's question, I be it as far as elves and trolls (counters and maps). We do have a few Code Gnomes who have quickly turned around bug fixes - as Joel mentioned, Lance Leung and George Hayward are two, along with Nicolas Perotin. We have these guys to thank for the real meat of the new stuff in v5.9.3.

For those of you who are interested in contributing to VASL development (ie, the Gnomes' mailing list), check out http://www.vassalengine.org/mailman/listinfo/vasl-devel.

My job is to enter bug reports from users into Bug Reports that are tracked by the VASL bug tracker on vassalengine.org. Typically people report problems in this Forum, and I collect them and enter them into the Bug Tracker. Once they're there, the Gnomes are aware of them and usually crank out a solution pretty quickly.

Problem is, most of the outright bugs have been fixed, leaving us with a ton of more-or-less-desired suggestions for improvements. Rotating the boards 90 or 180 degrees, for example, is the #1 desirement, but it's not an outright bug because the code works just fine as is. The Italian 347 squads reporting to the VASL chat window as 346 squads is a bug. Having an option for 1944-45 SS squads to have an underlined FP factor for Assault Fire is a feature request. Etc etc etc. I have entered a bunch of those feature requests as well, and have fixed a bunch of counter-related bugs and implemented a bunch of counter-related feature requests in v5.9.3, but (believe it or not), the masses complain at a rate faster than I can enter the data into the bug tracker. FWIW, v5.9.3 has ** dozens ** of new features and counter fixes.

Thus my opinion that we need someone who can own the process of handling user feedback (bug reports, questions, feature requests) quickly. Use UserVoice, the current VASL ToDo List, or some other tool to provide a good way for people to enter their reports and get rapid response from the VASL team. Not guaranteeing I can keep up with the counter and map requests even if that's all I focused on - there's a LOT to do - but I'd have a better chance if I wasn't struggling with the infrastructure so much.

And, yes, it'd help if this Magical New Person would also be able to marshall the process of putting out new VASL versions on a regular basis. Beta testing, etc. Again, apparently I can't make it happen because I don't have the bandwidth. I apologize if others see me "wasting time" with things like the BSO Board Challenges - believe me, I'm also working on v593 as well, but I need to have some fun too.

Anyway. More grist for the mill.

[von Marwitz]

BLUF - Yes, we could use more bodies. I've done a D-level job of keeping up with it, and for that I apologize.What we really need is one person to close the loop between user feedback (bugs, suggestions, questions) and the developers (Code Gnomes, Map Elves, Counter Trolls).

I simply cannot let it stand like this!

You cannot imagine how grateful I am personally for what you, the Gnomes, Elves, Trolls and other fantastic people do for us. Even if there there might be some fun for you in it, at least part of it is hard work. You sacrifice your free time for us - for free. After all, you all have your jobs to tend to, families etc. and thus you apologizing to us is quite embarrasing to me. Without you, there would not be any VASL league for some cretins to unsettle by cheating in the first place.

In short, you do not owe us, the community owes you guys. And if the community is not able to provide you with the extra bodies you need to get the work done, we do not have any right to complain.

I just want to thank you for what you do.
von Marwitz

[Tuomo]

Thanks vM. I'm not pouring ashes on myself - just recognizing that I haven't been able to do the kind of quality job that I want to do, and giving my opinion as to what we need to help fix the problem.

Yes, it's a gosh-darn-lot of work. Some have said it must be tedious, but it rarely is. It's certainly not thankless, as you and others often thank the VASL team, both publicly and privately. It certainly is a lousy way to make money, but the benefits are measured in other ways besides cash. I greatly enjoy doing something hard (in this case, probably more "long and detailed" than "difficult") and doing it well. There's a lot of craftsmanship to it.

So don't cry for me, Argentina. I'm not feeling unappreciated. I'm just giving a self-appraisal of how I've done at keeping up with VASL bug fixes and the like. Honestly, it's taken waaaaay too long for v5.9.3 to come out, and while there's real reasons for that, I certainly should have called a halt to new product support a while back and just pushed out 593 before the problem got out of hand.

Looking at my current and projected work load, I see things continuing to be overly busy, and so I think it's sensible to call it a non-success and see if anyone else wants to step in to fulfill that role. Shrug.

[Will Fleming]

Hmm, I have been thinking about this off and on and am not ready to 'commit' to anything yet. Nor is what I have to offer particularly anything needed.

Basically, I might be able to offer help coding a bit, but the VASL/VASSAL project seems a bit daunting to me right now. Is there a place where I could basically lurk a bit and see what kind of discussions are going on and maybe contribute a bit on the code for bug fixes/etc? I don't want to get any hopes up, but maybe I could help a little.

Sorry, but I would not be the best person for a project management type role, but rather a code troll in training.

[Michael R]

Tom, I may be able to help. Please PM your email address to me.

[Tuomo]

AlllllRIGHTYTHEN!

We've had a pretty darn gratifying response through private emails and I can say with some confidence that I'm feeling a lot better about the future :-)

Details are still being worked out, but it looks like we're going to have a lot more user-side support around here than we've had in a long time. That means you folks are going to get answers faster, issues are going to get communicated to the Code Gnomes faster, Tuomo's going to spend more time drawing and less time dealing with issues, and yes, I think we'll even see v5.9.3 before our grandchildren get old.

Not to be overly and prematurely exuberant, but I think a mini-huzzah is in order. (<huzzah!>)

I'll let the Three Headed Ogre take the stage when it's ready.

[Sparafucil3]

Not to be overly and prematurely exuberant, but I think a mini-huzzah is in order. (<huzzah!>)

Huzzah!