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Thread: US rifle grenades

  1. #41
    Hoarding ASL items....... Kevin Kenneally's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by KED View Post
    Just one last thing on this subject. The US "Pineapple Grenade was considered on of the most powerfull and effective grenades at the time. The British "Mills Bomb" was a close second. While we have evidence that the US grenade had an adaptor to fit a rifle grenade launcher, I am not sure abour the "Mills Bomb" in British service. However, I am sure that the ammo for the 50mm Japaneese "Knee Mortar" was the standard Japaneese hand grenade. As a matter of fact most Japaneese hand grenades could be used in the knee mortar. All that was required was an addaptor that could be screwed onto most grenades. (Launch charge)

    This is a complicated issue and I right now have no good answers. But I am hoping for some from the Forum.
    Kev,

    Try going to the "View from the Trenches" website and download the many magazines there for free.

    There are plenty of articles that are related to what you are talking about, to include some Chapter H pages (made by a reader from Norway) on Machine Guns.
    Kevin Kenneally
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    Visiting your local Army Reserve & National Guard units to play ASL.

  2. #42
    Forum Regular Jeffrey D Myers's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    That's right, Kevin. Thanks for reminding me that I need to print them out and put in my Chapter H Unikeep(R) binder.

  3. #43
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Kenneally View Post
    Kev,

    Try going to the "View from the Trenches" website and download the many magazines there for free.

    There are plenty of articles that are related to what you are talking about, to include some Chapter H pages (made by a reader from Norway) on Machine Guns.
    My new quest! Thanks Kevin.

  4. #44
    Forum Guru witchbottles's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    [QUOTE=KED;1492582]... As a matter of fact most Japaneese hand grenades could be used in the knee mortar. All that was required was an addaptor that could be screwed onto most grenades. (Launch charge)

    QUOTE]

    Isn't this exactly what is already modeled in the game on the japancese 50* MTR counter? the 1/2 FP {1-6} markings for the reduced charge of a regular grenade with a firing adaptor attached for short range engagement?

    Given that the mechanic already exists, it would be simple to SSR the same mechanic to apply to other Lt Mtrs in the game to represent a given event or battle where they may be desirous to exemplify as a unique characteristic of that battle or unit, regardless of nationality. something such as "Italian 45* MTRs have the same short range capability as the Japanese Mtr IJA Ordance note blah blah blah, etc, etc."

    Again, simple for play, the players would only need to set a upside down 50* japanese mtr to the side for ref, much as they do a PF mrkr or a Baz 44 mrkr when these are in play for easy reference.

    Now my curiosity IS sparked at the image and recorded events of priming a 60mm Mtr Round in hand and using it as an impromptu satchel charge when none was at hand to engage a bunker. Or how about ad hoc AP mines from unexploded 81 mm Mtr rounds?


    The thoughts here:

    An infantryman, ( or in reality any person engaged ) in a firefight will use whatever is at hand, in any conveniently accesible manner, to find a method to gai nthe upper hand in said firefight. Simply why so many 2.75 in HEAT rockets were used in engagements against MG 34 / MG 42 nests in 1944 1945. The bazooka was developed as an AT weapon, yet was adapted in the field to use in suppression of enemy fire assets.

    Is this really not a sufficiently modeled trait of our cardboard warriors already? The HoB tables certainly seem to show it in an abstract form, with heroes and BHing, leader creation, even beserk rage charges at the enemy. All being done in a random mannerism to reflect the small percentage of men in combat who will seek any possible advantage of any weapon or piece of equipment to win the firefight they are engaged in. If there is specific need to model it as a pivotal event, then you might try enlisting the aid of a similar SSR as one finds at the bottom of "Bread Factory #2" scenario card; forcing the event as it were.

    My $.02

    KRL, Jon H
    "If you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice."

  5. #45
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Kenneally View Post
    Kev,

    Try going to the "View from the Trenches" website and download the many magazines there for free.

    There are plenty of articles that are related to what you are talking about, to include some Chapter H pages (made by a reader from Norway) on Machine Guns.
    Look at the article War in Peace. they give an idea how to represent the 40mm grenade launcher. These rules could be used with some tweeking to represent the varrious rifle grenade systems of WWII.

  6. #46
    Forum Guru witchbottles's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Hi Kevin!
    found these, might be of interest to you:

    Waffen SS rifle grenade pic.jpgwaffen sS rifle grenade pic #2.jpg


    KRL, Jon H
    "If you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice."

  7. #47
    Forum Guru Blackcloud6's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    I submit that rifle grenades are already part of the squad's IFP and thus is covered by normal IFT and Close Combat resolution. Rifle grenades are below the fidelity of ASL.
    The tank is not afraid of the gun; it is afraid of the concealed gun." Lt. Gen. Martel, British Army

  8. #48
    Forum Guru Paul M. Weir's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by witchbottles View Post
    The thoughts here:

    An infantryman, ( or in reality any person engaged ) in a firefight will use whatever is at hand, in any conveniently accesible manner, to find a method to gai nthe upper hand in said firefight. Simply why so many 2.75 in HEAT rockets were used in engagements against MG 34 / MG 42 nests in 1944 1945. The bazooka was developed as an AT weapon, yet was adapted in the field to use in suppression of enemy fire assets.

    Is this really not a sufficiently modeled trait of our cardboard warriors already? The HoB tables certainly seem to show it in an abstract form, with heroes and BHing, leader creation, even beserk rage charges at the enemy. All being done in a random mannerism to reflect the small percentage of men in combat who will seek any possible advantage of any weapon or piece of equipment to win the firefight they are engaged in. If there is specific need to model it as a pivotal event, then you might try enlisting the aid of a similar SSR as one finds at the bottom of "Bread Factory #2" scenario card; forcing the event as it were.
    In SL/CoI/CoD/GI there were no target restrictions for SC LATW. When ASL was being developed, the writers felt that SC LATW (Baz,Piat,PSK,PF) were being used in a too ahistorical manner and introduced the current restrictions on soft targets. I suppose that given the typically limited ammo supply (a dozen or so rounds per Baz, Piat or PSK) they had a point. Maybe things got pushed too far the other way. The occasional and appropriate use of a SSR removing these restrictions should be considered.
    The more you know, the more you know how little you know.

  9. #49
    Forum Commando Srynerson's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul M. Weir View Post
    In SL/CoI/CoD/GI there were no target restrictions for SC LATW. When ASL was being developed, the writers felt that SC LATW (Baz,Piat,PSK,PF) were being used in a too ahistorical manner and introduced the current restrictions on soft targets. I suppose that given the typically limited ammo supply (a dozen or so rounds per Baz, Piat or PSK) they had a point. Maybe things got pushed too far the other way. The occasional and appropriate use of a SSR removing these restrictions should be considered.
    I was thinking about this the other day. Even though I know SCWs are most effective against hard targets, it just seems that if somebody fired a rocket-propelled weapon at a squad (which would exclude the PIAT), it would at least cause them to temporarily scatter and break up the flow of a charge at the SCW launcher's position. So I was contemplating whether it might make sense to allow firing a SCW at soft targets subject to the launcher passing a task check and, in the event of a successful firing, causing only a pin check for the target. That would preclude the rampant use of such weapons against infantry, while still allowing a defender to fire the weapon in a desparate situation.
    Last edited by Srynerson; 01 Jul 12 at 00:23.

  10. #50
    Forum Guru witchbottles's Avatar
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    Re: US rifle grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul M. Weir View Post
    In SL/CoI/CoD/GI there were no target restrictions for SC LATW. When ASL was being developed, the writers felt that SC LATW (Baz,Piat,PSK,PF) were being used in a too ahistorical manner and introduced the current restrictions on soft targets. I suppose that given the typically limited ammo supply (a dozen or so rounds per Baz, Piat or PSK) they had a point. Maybe things got pushed too far the other way. The occasional and appropriate use of a SSR removing these restrictions should be considered.
    I find nothing wrong with the current "restrictions" per se. That being said, it is certainly a well known fact tha even something "soft target" like a filled sandbag wall will be within a matter of 5-10 days of sufficient density as to detonate a HEAT warhead round from an AT- 4 or a LAW ( the modern reincarnations of the Bazooka rocket). The restictions are quite correct from a viewpoint of practice, one simply would not normally consider such explosive charges for use vs a MG nest in the Pripyet, for example. The idea here is if there is some specific design need to incorporate such weaponry, one can easily either abstract its effects or abstract the actual event as a pivotal part of a specific action via concise, clearly written SSRs rather than re-writing entire sections of the ASLRB to take such into account. Certainly if one is referring to such useage in an ad- hoc manner like using HEAT rounds on MG nests.

    my $.02

    KRL, Jon H
    "If you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice."

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