US rifle grenades

[KED]

Why is this not included in the game? It was a HEAT round about as powerfull as a bazooka round. In fact both may have had the same warhead just different backsides. One to fit the grenade launcher on rifles and the other with a rocket motor and better fins. Im not sure what the range of these things were but 100m is not out of the question. This could be handled in the game just like the PF rules. Every US squad had a grenadier as did most German squads. I do think the German PF capability covers all of this.
The British had one too but I have little information on ist use, or its ammo. I have seen the Enfields wired up and with the launcher cup attached. Had one in my hands once.
The Russians used one(and may have invented the first) and used it in the Winter War. But it was almost useless. Troops reported grenades launched at a 45 degree angle flying out to ranges between 10 and 200 meters(bad blanks). The explosive and fragmentation was also bad. A Finnish HO unit in a fortified location took a direct hit. The grenade landed in the middle of the building and exploded. The only damage was that one officer had his glasses broken! The grenade only broke into 3 or 4 fragments that somehow missed everyone.

After the Winter War the Russians withdrew this weapon. It is reported that some may have still been in units at the early stages of Barborosa.

Any thoughts on this?

[Houlie]

My guess is that it is abstracted into units' FP already.

[KED]

My guess is that it is abstracted into units' FP already.

So where is the US Squads ability to fire a HEAT round out to 2 hexes? At that range and with the ark of the round, it would be hitting the top of the vehicle. The Bazooka has 8FP when it hits non armored targets. There are photos of GIs having things that look like a 60mm MTR round on the end of their rifles while doing street sweeps.

[Fort]

Here ya go....the only one in ASL.

pic18350_md.jpg

[witchbottles]

So where is the US Squads ability to fire a HEAT round out to 2 hexes? At that range and with the ark of the round, it would be hitting the top of the vehicle. The Bazooka has 8FP when it hits non armored targets. There are photos of GIs having things that look like a 60mm MTR round on the end of their rifles while doing street sweeps.

The M-1 Garand required a Grenade Launching Cup to be affixed to the barrel, attached to the bayonet lug and front sight blade in order to support the rifle grenade. This is not a HEAT round at all, in fact.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...UBMAo&dur=4234

Rather this was a regular HE round offensive grenade, ( otherwise commonly known as the "pineapple".). The gunner was required to remove his regular ball ammunition clip ( most commonly done by simply firing it off, as was the common method for unloading a M-1 in any event), and load a en bloc clip of crimped genade firing blanks, which contained a small packed paper and wax soaked plug that would be caught in the "cup" at the base of the rifle grenade.
To fire required mounting the rifle to the ground, as illustrated in Hedgerow Hell, and using "kentucky windage" to get the round on target, as although specialized ladder sights for indirect fire were made for the M-1 Garand, they were most commonly removed long before combat by the troops issued these rifles , in order to facilitate using the standard sights of the Garand for anti - personnel gunning.( ie regular issue ball ammuniition.)

If you were going to illustrate this then, in ASL terms as a SSR, it mught be giving a 667 or 747 the PF check ability with a similar range, out to 3 hexes, of a 2 FP HE ( not HEAT) attack, and allowing even its use for a possible aerial AF hit on an AFV, at 37 mm HE vs the aerial AF of the tgt AFV, if you di. I'd probably agree that it would necessitate the use of the same to Hit table, and range, dropping off quickly at more than 30 meters, simply by dint of the need to aim via "Hit and miss" method.

These things had nowhere near the explosive capacity of a 60 mm HE round.

there are some examples of test firing on youtube if you want to see one go bang.

KRL, Jon H

[PaKfront]

US Rifle Grenades

http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usarg/rg/index.html


The Garand, Springfield and even the M1 Carbine had Grenade launchers for them.

[wrongway149]

Tn the "cup" at the base of the rifle grenade.

If you were going to illustrate this then, in ASL terms as a SSR, it mught be giving a 667 or 747 the PF check ability with a similar range, out to 3 hexes, of a 2 FP HE ( not HEAT) attack, and allowing even its use for a possible aerial AF hit on an AFV, at 37 mm HE vs the aerial AF of the tgt AFV, if you di. I'd probably agree that it would necessitate the use of the same to Hit table, and range, dropping off quickly at more than 30 meters, simply by dint of the need to aim via "Hit and miss" method.

These things had nowhere near the explosive capacity of a 60 mm HE round.

there are some examples of test firing on youtube if you want to see one go bang.

KRL, Jon H

Seems like a lot of hassle for minimal effect. FWIW, I have run across very few accounts of effective use of rifle grenades.

At least compared to say, 'Sticky bombs'

[PaKfront]

The Germans also had Rifle Grenades

The had a HE Rifle Grenade, a Anti tank Rifle Grenade, a Large Anti tank rifle grenade, 46mm Hollow charge rifle grenade, 61mm hollow charge rifle grenade, illuminating parachute rifle grenade, HEAT rifle grenade

[Blackcloud6]

These are all part of the CC as the rifle grenades effectively only had range that would work within the hex.

[PaKfront]

These are all part of the CC as the rifle grenades effectively only had range that would work within the hex.

Antitank rifle grenade.--The antitank rifle grenade, HE, M9, is provided for the purpose of combating tanks and armored vehicles. The grenade is fired from a U.S. rifle, caliber .30, M1903, which is carried by the antitank rifle grenadier of each rifle squad. A practice grenade M11 is provided for instruction in mechanical training, marksmanship, and technique of fire. Each rifle from which the grenade is to be fired is provided with a soft rubber pad to be placed over the butt, and also with a launcher (muzzle extension) which fits over the muzzle and into the base of the fin-tail assembly. The launcher holds the grenade in place during the period of aiming. The grenade may be fired from the prone, standing, sitting, or kneeling positions, or from a foxhole or slit trench. Within its effective range, approximately 75 yards, the high explosive grenade M9 is effective against all known light and medium tanks.

With a ASL Hex being approx 40 metres, this is probably what the designers thought also. Most WW2 armies had a Grenade launcher of some type.