Patch needed badly for AoR and Red Victory

[Ranger B]

I'm not really sure what the issue here is regarding machine-guns; I have a copy of RV open in front of me, and I see bow machineguns on my Tigers (both types I & II), Panthers and Mk IV's. If the original poster feels strongly on adding more machineguns to tanks (and I have yet to try this for machineguns, but I believe it will work because I have done it for other weapons), you can in fact mod existing systems within the RV module. The dat files are locked against adding NEW weapons to the game. You are not actually adding anything to the game by locating the Tiger tank in the vehicle.dat file and adding to it an additional machinegun, because it uses an already existing weapon system from the weapons.dat file and existing load from the loads.dat file in the game. So if you really feel strongly that something needs changing or adding, you could do this yourself.

While I cannot speak for Rich Hamilton directly, it appears there is simply some confusion on what was discussed. Rich's comment regarding how machineguns are in some instances rolled into other values of weapons or tanks is based on the fact that for example, you don't find the 'coaxial machinegun' nor 'turret roof mounted MG's' represented in most instances, unless that weapon was the main armament of the vehicle. So yes, clearly Rich spoke a fact; some machineguns HAVE been combined into a grouping or calculated into some other aspect of the vehicle. Still I don't see what the issue is, seeing as I am looking at bow MG's on said tanks - however, if there are inconsistencies or missing machineguns, this is an extremely minor issue and not code or programming related. In plain English that means in itself, it is unlikely to generate a patch.

The Eagle Strike title does not have limitations on the various dat files; in other words, you can mod to your hearts desire.

[Deputy]

I'm not really sure what the issue here is regarding machine-guns; I have a copy of RV open in front of me, and I see bow machineguns on my Tigers (both types I & II), Panthers and Mk IV's. If the original poster feels strongly on adding more machineguns to tanks (and I have yet to try this for machineguns, but I believe it will work because I have done it for other weapons), you can in fact mod existing systems within the RV module. The dat files are locked against adding NEW weapons to the game. You are not actually adding anything to the game by locating the Tiger tank in the vehicle.dat file and adding to it an additional machinegun, because it uses an already existing weapon system from the weapons.dat file and existing load from the loads.dat file in the game. So if you really feel strongly that something needs changing or adding, you could do this yourself.

While I cannot speak for Rich Hamilton directly, it appears there is simply some confusion on what was discussed. Rich's comment regarding how machineguns are in some instances rolled into other values of weapons or tanks is based on the fact that for example, you don't find the 'coaxial machinegun' nor 'turret roof mounted MG's' represented in most instances, unless that weapon was the main armament of the vehicle. So yes, clearly Rich spoke a fact; some machineguns HAVE been combined into a grouping or calculated into some other aspect of the vehicle. Still I don't see what the issue is, seeing as I am looking at bow MG's on said tanks - however, if there are inconsistencies or missing machineguns, this is an extremely minor issue and not code or programming related. In plain English that means in itself, it is unlikely to generate a patch.

The Eagle Strike title does not have limitations on the various dat files; in other words, you can mod to your hearts desire.

The issue is NO machineguns show up on tanks in the pictures at the bottom of the screen when you click on the Tank (Tiger and Panther). That in itself would be no big deal, EXCEPT, those weapons are used in close quarters fighting to hold back the infantry from attacking the tank. And the Soviet tanks DO have seperate canon and machineguns that are able to fire independently. That is a BIG advantage for the Soviets vs infantry attacks. If the programmers are going to "factor in" machineguns, then they should be consistent and do it for ALL tanks, not just the German tanks. The machineguns show up on the German tanks in the DAT files. They just don't show up during actual gameplay. After playing the game more often, I find that the machineguns not showing up seems to be a random occurence. I have edited the Slutsk scenario multiple times and sometimes machineguns show and sometimes they don't. So something is definitely not right. And the effectiveness (or lack therof) of the German canons on the tanks is a bit of a joke. An 88 should be able to take a rear shot on a T-34 or ANY other tank and open it up like a can of cat food. Instead, you take 6 shots at 3-4 hexes away and NOTHING happens. And this is in clear terrain with no modifiers. So yes, a patch is definitely needed.

[Ranger B]

If the proper machineguns are showing up in the dat files, this is not an issue, then. It sounds like your files have been corrupted and likely need a fresh install.

[Ranger B]

"And the effectiveness (or lack therof) of the German canons on the tanks is a bit of a joke. An 88 should be able to take a rear shot on a T-34 or ANY other tank and open it up like a can of cat food. Instead, you take 6 shots at 3-4 hexes away and NOTHING happens. And this is in clear terrain with no modifiers. So yes, a patch is definitely needed."


This could also be related to corrupt files; if equipment is disappearing from your gameplay, it is possible that the corruption extends to other elements. I played scenario 7 - Fire Brigade Meyer - a few days ago, and my Tigers decimated the attacking Russian tanks.

One of the options you may want to try using and see if you get results more in line with your expectations is 'optional fire results'. Selecting this option makes the combat results generator take 2 combat results and average the final outcome, thus preventing extreme fluctuations to your shots.

But I would recommend making a complete fresh install first since clearly there is a problem in your files if your weapons are disappearing. I've never had that happen in any of the Squad Battles titles I own.

[Deputy]

"And the effectiveness (or lack therof) of the German canons on the tanks is a bit of a joke. An 88 should be able to take a rear shot on a T-34 or ANY other tank and open it up like a can of cat food. Instead, you take 6 shots at 3-4 hexes away and NOTHING happens. And this is in clear terrain with no modifiers. So yes, a patch is definitely needed."


This could also be related to corrupt files; if equipment is disappearing from your gameplay, it is possible that the corruption extends to other elements. I played scenario 7 - Fire Brigade Meyer - a few days ago, and my Tigers decimated the attacking Russian tanks.

One of the options you may want to try using and see if you get results more in line with your expectations is 'optional fire results'. Selecting this option makes the combat results generator take 2 combat results and average the final outcome, thus preventing extreme fluctuations to your shots.

But I would recommend making a complete fresh install first since clearly there is a problem in your files if your weapons are disappearing. I've never had that happen in any of the Squad Battles titles I own.

Thanks for your advice, I will try a fresh install and see if that helps. Also thanks for the info on optional fire results.

[Deputy]

Did a fresh install and same situation. Some German tanks that should have them are missing machineguns. Haven't tried optional fire results yet. Where's that dang patch!!!!!

[Wodin]

deputy send in a save game to HPS support. As for the effectiveness issue, I've mentioned this many times, however to alter the mechanic you'd have to give real ammo counts and I suppose RoF settings. This would improve the series 1000x, sadly though it wont happen. I mentioned it numerous times when I had a stint in BETA testing and we where told no and there is no point in asking.

PzC are the games that sell well, SB doesn't sell enough to warrant any major changes as I said JT thinks it wouldn't sell anymore even if he did it. Which to be honest i think he is very wrong indeed. It would only take about three game changing features to make SB the best turn based tactical game made period. We'd finally have a series that would topple Steel Panthers series. I personally think it would double or even triple in sales if certain changes where made.

However the missing MG's need to be looked into. So send HPS support an email. I asked years ago for the MG42 to be upped in power (to match the Africa mod) and it was done in the next patch that came out. SO things like that and bugs get sorted.

[Deputy]

Wodin: I can send in a saved game, but I doubt it will do any good. As you say, JT has pretty much washwed his hands of Squad Battles and it has become VAPORWARE. Rich has already stated that any tanks missing machineguns have their machinegun abilities "factored in" to the main gun. Ridiculous, but that's the story line.

Something else that kinda bothers me is the sounds in AoR and RV. In Steel Panthers they are pretty realistic with gun sounds. A Tiger tank sounds like a Tiger tank when it fires and impacts. Check out the sounds for the flak guns. All you hear is one "boom" and that's it. Totally innaccurate. They should have muitiple firing sounds and multiple impacts. A prime example is the Gemran Type F Mk II tank. It is equipped with a dual 20mm canon. All you hear is one boom when it fires and one boom when it impacts. Also just one explosion is represented graphically. And the effectiveness of this and other flak guns on infantry is WAY underrated. They were devestating against infantry. Even in Vietnam the twin 40MM "duster" was used to great effect against the Vietcong, especially at night to clear roads of any road movement. In SB you might as well be firing a BB gun. Even at very close range the effect is zero. Most effective anti-infantry weapon I have found so far is the Flammenpanzer tank equipped with a flamethrower.

[Wodin]

Deputy honestly it's far from vapourware. New games are being developed as we speak. Infact there was a period of time where very few games where made, we've been spoilt as far as releases go over the last two or three years.
Also it will do some good if you send the save in. If it's a bug it will be fixed. I expect Rich without seeing the error himself was taking a geuss. he doesn't actaully fix or look into it but passes it on.
Also every new release has updates to the engine. I expect patches to be released this year, I presume there waiting on a certain title to be finished. Also the beta test team will recive the bug report and save file and sort it outt. The team is a great bunch who are dedicated to the game.

As for sounds I presume they cam be modded, but belive me when I tell you there amazing comapred to Tigers Unleasehd which needs (and will get) some major improvements.

Again it's far from vapourware..it just wont have any major game mechanic changes and never has had. Annoying but a totally different thing to minor new features and fixes which are done.

Anyway whatever happens SB has some game mechanics I really don't like (effectiveness being the major one). Though others seem to not mind them and except it's an SB quirk. What I'd love to see is a mix between SB, WinSPWW2 and Tigers Unleashed. Take the best bits form those game add them togather and we have the ultimate tactical wargame. The only way I think that will happen is if I learn to programme (discover I have a natural ability aswell) then make it myself. I was so looking forward to Matrix Combat Leader. It was promising so much but sadly did become vapourware.

[Deputy]

Wodin: I have to disagree. All you have to do is look at the list of patches for the SB series. The majority of them were released in 2009. And Red Victory has NEVER been patched. That pretty much defines vaporware. They have given up on this series. I am with you that Red Victory and AoR COULD be awesome games. But I doubt very much that their true potential will ever be realized. They seem to be games that had a vague concept to start with and no real definitive goals to reach. It's a shame the sounds from Tillers East Front-West Front games couldn't be used in SB. They were really quite good. When a Tiger tank fired you heard the canon go off, then you heard the round tearing through the air, and then the impact.