Another route question

[ZaxTrax]

Can a unit surrender once it has expended a movement factor to route (e.g. it moves one hex, finds itself adjacent to a good order enemy unit, and then surrenders), or can it only surender if it hasn't moved yet? The examples in ASLRB2 seem to indicate the latter (that is, once a unit starts moving it can't surrender), but I can't find anything that explicitly states that. (Rule A20.21 states something like '...any broken infintry unit that is ADJACENT to an armed good order enemy unit *during* it's route phase must surrender').

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Commissar Piotr]

Hi

Seems you have answered your own question already.

"20.21 RtPh: Any broken Infantry unit during its RtPh that is both ADJACENT to Known, Good Order, armed enemy Infantry/Cavalry and unable to rout away from it or only able to rout while being subject to Interdiction or resorting to Low Crawl (regardless of how it actually routs or if the possible Interdictor is Known to it), will surrender to that enemy unit as its prisoner instead, (captor's choice of unit receiving surrender if more than one unit qualifies) after first abandoning all its SW."

Yes, a unit can surrender after it have started to move in the RtPh.

[ZaxTrax]

But it seems that the examples contridict that.

For instance, from the comprehensive route example on page A27, paragraph 2, sentence 3: "If [the broken 4-4-7 on Level 2 of M2] routed to the ground level of N1, it could not stay there because of the ADJACENT unbroken KEU in O1, and could not continue on to N2, M1, or M2 because that would be moving closer to the KEUs it remembers seeing in J6, K3, and J1, *and so it would be eliminated for failure to route*."

So, why is surrender not an option for the 4-4-7 at this point?

Similarly, the example on A26 shows a Russian unit being eliminated for failure to route after it tries entering the hex of a concealed German unit (thereby causing the German unit to be revealed). Why can't it surrender to the newly revealed German unit?

-Thanks again.

[paul]

NRBH, but I believe that surrender happens at the beginning of the rout phase, once a unit starts it rout move surrender is no longer an option.

-Paul

[SamB]

NRBH, but I believe that surrender happens at the beginning of the rout phase, once a unit starts it rout move surrender is no longer an option.

This is not true. A unit can surrender after it starts its rout. There is a Q&A on my website http://dicetower.com that says

A broken unit ends its rout ADJACENT to a concealed enemy unit with MF still available. If the concealed enemy unit voluntarily drops its concealment before the routing player can move another unit, what happens to the broken enemy unit?

Does it have to continue to rout? Or is it eliminated for failure to rout? If it doesn't have any MF left?

It must rout further or Surrender or be eliminated for Failure to Rout. It must rout further if it can. It will Surrender or be eliminated for Failure to Rout.

So it should be obvious from this Q&A that a unit can rout and then surrender if it meets the requirements for doing so.

[ZaxTrax]

Ok, this seems to make sense. However, I still don't understand the comprehensive route example in the RB (see my last post).

Why is the unit eliminated for failure to route in THAT sistuation? From what you've all said, it seems that it should be able to surrender.

[Brian W]

For instance, from the comprehensive route example on page A27, paragraph 2, sentence 3: "If [the broken 4-4-7 on Level 2 of M2] routed to the ground level of N1, it could not stay there because of the ADJACENT unbroken KEU in O1, and could not continue on to N2, M1, or M2 because that would be moving closer to the KEUs it remembers seeing in J6, K3, and J1, *and so it would be eliminated for failure to route*." So, why is surrender not an option for the 4-4-7 at this point?

The example is wrong, which is a problem with the ASLRB, although it is not nearly as bad as it was in the ASLRBv1.

Similarly, the example on A26 shows a Russian unit being eliminated for failure to route after it tries entering the hex of a concealed German unit (thereby causing the German unit to be revealed). Why can't it surrender to the newly revealed German unit?

Because of A10.533, such a unit immediatly ends its RtPh. Since its RtPh is ended it can no longer surrender. Since its RtPh is ended adjacent to a KEU, it is eliminated for failure to rout.

[Treadhead]

Similarly, the example on A26 shows a Russian unit being eliminated for failure to route after it tries entering the hex of a concealed German unit (thereby causing the German unit to be revealed). Why can't it surrender to the newly revealed German unit?
-Thanks again.

The examples -- and this one in particular -- seem to contradict what the rule says. I sent several questions about this issue to Perry last August and again in February, but I have received no response.

The example you cite is incorrect, IMO. A10.533 states, as you have noticed, that such a revealed unit could accept the broken unit's surrender. This is also reinforced by A12.15. I tend to accept the body of the rules over the EX when a discrepancy occurs.

If the Surrender is not a valid option and the broken unit ends its RtPh in the adjacent hex, then the broken unit would be eliminated for Failure to Rout.

That's how I see it.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken
[/b]