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Mike Cox
27 Jan 09, 12:47
Originally I had planned on 1960 as the split, but a 1950 split will balance the titles better. We are in the process of completing the pre 1950 tourney, so my attention is turning to the modern era.

What should be the next title for a tourney?

Poll Closes in 2 weeks.

Please vote if you intend to play. Voting is not a commitment.

The goal will be to finish this tourney by the end of June and then take summer off. WW2 will start up September 1 again.

TheBigRedOne
27 Jan 09, 14:52
Any thought as to including Africa at War or Andrew's new Arab-Israeli Wars as a possibility?

Alpha Zwo
27 Jan 09, 15:29
Yes, including the Arab-Israeli Wars mod would be fine.

TheBigRedOne
27 Jan 09, 15:36
Yes, including the Arab-Israeli Wars mod would be fine.

The question was more pointed at Mike, but opinions are good.

The main flaw with my notion, and probably why AIW wasn't included, is that there is no history on the scenarios in terms of balance and playability. While I'm sure IronX has made excellent scenarios, there is something to be said for going to the scenario section of a couple of ladders to see which games have/don't have the appropriate balance.

One thought I was kicking around for a future tourney might be having a designer craft three brand new scenarios specifically for a tourney. Virgin material, as it were. Might be fun, and could be applicable to just about any game, but especially for Long War since the scenarios there are more showcases than dyed-in-the-wool scenarios.

Just a thought.

Rifleman95th
27 Jan 09, 18:52
Korea has my vote at this stage. What ever game is chosen I'll play - assuming I have the title!

TheBigRedOne
28 Jan 09, 14:48
Since we I already participated in a KW and SAW tourney, I voted for the game that started it all off so many years ago: Vietnam.

The sad thing is, I think this game has been overshadowed/forgotten, especially in the past few years. If HPS were making this game today, I have no doubt that it would be head and shoulders better than the original version, if for nothing else than the emphasis on balance in the scenario design and the amount of playtesting that goes into most individual scenarios.

I've been wanting to try my hand at scenario design and have some preliminary plans in place for some VN or TOD scenarios, but I'm struggling to put together the time to do it. An 11 month old at home and another due in March will do that....

Mikekiller16
28 Jan 09, 16:36
I vote for Vietnam

Dazooz
28 Jan 09, 17:07
Good to see Vietnam getting some play here!

Jhdeerslayer
29 Jan 09, 09:21
Hurry up and decide so I can go out and buy it! :-)

cromlechi
29 Jan 09, 14:50
Count me in, I will play any of them.

:rifle::nofear:

rahamy
31 Jan 09, 09:57
The problem with the LW or ME mods is that, by the designers own admission, the scenarios are more meant to illustrate what can be done rather than presenting a solid, balanced, playing environment. Until some serious scenario design time goes into that content I don't see it getting used in a tourney - but that's certainly not saying "never".

TheBigRedOne
31 Jan 09, 10:50
The problem with the LW or ME mods is that, by the designers own admission, the scenarios are more meant to illustrate what can be done rather than presenting a solid, balanced, playing environment. Until some serious scenario design time goes into that content I don't see it getting used in a tourney - but that's certainly not saying "never".

Fair enough, although I think AIW's scenarios were crafted more towards being 'real' versus LW's more demonstration type of mode, there's just no history on them to show balance. Africa at War, however, has some really nicely crafted scenarios with a fairly good record of gameplay on them. I will admit to not having played AAW much. There are too many SB games and not enough time! Heck, I really haven't even touched the Pacific Theatre games and I am keenly interested in that part of WWII!

Looks like VN is pulling ahead. The challenge for you guys will be to find three well balanced scenarios in that game.

Joao Lima
01 Feb 09, 09:58
... Africa at War, however, has some really nicely crafted scenarios with a fairly good record of gameplay on them....

AAW has got another problem at present. It is still using an old engine version since the exe was never updated.


... Heck, I really haven't even touched the Pacific Theatre games and I am keenly interested in that part of WWII!...

Believe me, you're missing a lot. PW is one of my favourite games, the theatre is so well suited for small infantry battles...


...Looks like VN is pulling ahead. The challenge for you guys will be to find three well balanced scenarios in that game.

hhmmm... yes... but there's plenty of them, there should be 3 that are balanced... :(

IronX
01 Feb 09, 18:00
I wouldn't dismiss the AIW scenarios so quickly. Yes, the LW scenarios are mainly for demonstration purposes, but you'll find the AIW scenarios more solid and balanced.

TheBigRedOne
02 Feb 09, 08:50
AAW has got another problem at present. It is still using an old engine version since the exe was never updated.

Our resident tinkerer JTTemple did post a work-around in terms of being able to patch Pacific War and still keep AAW viable.

http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?t=81131&highlight=Africa

While it is true that it's running on the 'old' version of PW, it still gets a fair amount of game play on the various ladders and, in my estimation, should not have been counted out so quickly with this tourney. Since I'm not doing the leg-work, I respect Mike and Rich for their job running things here. They've been running SB tourneys for a couple of years straight, and it's been great fun. No complaints at all, hope my posts aren't taken any other way than to spur conversation.

That being said, I'm looking forward to a VN tourney. I think going through each of the games this way offers everyone a chance to sample a little bit of everything that SB has to offer...

Atle
03 Feb 09, 01:30
I voted for 'Nam, as both SAW and Korea has been used in tournaments... Would be nice to revisit the first SB game :)

Mike Cox
11 Feb 09, 17:37
Tell you what. Y'all pony up $10 for the next tourney and I'll design a set for LW or AIW:cool:

But seriously as Rich points out the scenarios are not so much balanced as a sandbox to play with.

That being said, if a designer (amateur or pro) wants to do a set of three scenarios, and playtest them thoroughly first (and then getting a thumbs up from a couple of SB playtesters and myself), I could see putting that up for a poll option.

The main drawback is that they are not all inclusive. Someone may not be comfortable with the hoops to jump through and manipulations to get them working correctly.

TheBigRedOne
12 Feb 09, 11:59
Tell you what. Y'all pony up $10 for the next tourney and I'll design a set for LW or AIW:cool:

But seriously as Rich points out the scenarios are not so much balanced as a sandbox to play with.

That being said, if a designer (amateur or pro) wants to do a set of three scenarios, and playtest them thoroughly first (and then getting a thumbs up from a couple of SB playtesters and myself), I could see putting that up for a poll option.

The main drawback is that they are not all inclusive. Someone may not be comfortable with the hoops to jump through and manipulations to get them working correctly.

$10 total or from each player?

:p

Jhdeerslayer
12 Feb 09, 13:39
Bummer as I bought NAM and getting all ready...

TheBigRedOne
12 Feb 09, 13:43
I think that NAM should be the next tourney, I'm assuming Mike's pondering 'down the line' sorta stuff. There's not enough time to craft and playtest three scenarios before we'll want to start the next tourney.

Jhdeerslayer
12 Feb 09, 14:26
I noticed NAM is a little different then WW... Only my second game in the series so still a noob. :-) Looking forward to it.

TheBigRedOne
12 Feb 09, 15:31
I noticed NAM is a little different then WW... Only my second game in the series so still a noob. :-) Looking forward to it.

NAM is a LOT different than WW. The engine has progressed since NAMs inception and the scenarios are much better balanced. Head to Task Force Echo 4 and pick up new scenarios as well as graphics mods for the game. Really enhances the title.

Jhdeerslayer
12 Feb 09, 19:44
Nice site and thanks for the tip.

Mike Cox
16 Feb 09, 22:36
I was thinking down stream, and yes I was talking $10 a head entry....

Anyhow, looks like we are headed to the jungle and Vietnam.... I'll give the scenarios some thought.

In the meantime, keep cranking out the turns in WW.

TheBigRedOne
17 Feb 09, 12:10
I was thinking down stream, and yes I was talking $10 a head entry....

Anyhow, looks like we are headed to the jungle and Vietnam.... I'll give the scenarios some thought.

In the meantime, keep cranking out the turns in WW.

$10 in the NAM would have gotten you some Numba 10 boom-boom time.