View Full Version : Question on determining Penetration value

23 Dec 08, 21:44
I was looking at the effect of Penetration versus Infantry Protection:

Infantry Protection
Given a Penetration value F of the firing unit and a final Protection value T of an Infantry target unit, when the ratio of F / T is less than 1, it is multiplied times the fire value of the firing unit. Ratios F / T greater than 1 have no effect on the fire value against Infantry targets.

For example, if an Infantry target unit has a Protection value of 8 and the firing unit has a Penetration value of 4, then the fire value is multiplied by 0.5 (= 4/8).

Now, the firing unit could be firing multiple types of weapons which could have different Penetration factors, and also there could be more than one firing unit. So, how does the game engine treat these situations? And I guess an associated question would be, does the game indeed combine the fire factor from more than one unit, or is the fire of each unit resolved separately?

24 Dec 08, 12:33
Since I have some time due to the holidays, I decided to build special loads.dat and weapons.dat files and create a scenario to test out this situation. I've attached the files below in a zip, be *sure* to back up the two .dat files mentioned above. Oh, and this is for Spanish Civil War since Rich suggested I should always use the latest game since it has all the latest tweaks.

What I did was make a scenario with three attacking ten man squads. One squad has ten weak weapons, which have lethality of 30 but penetration of zero. Next is a strong squad with ten strong weapons, same lethality but a penetration of 36, which matches the protection value of the target hex, which is clear with a bunker. Finally I made a mixed squad with nine weak weapons and one strong one.

First test was with the weak squad. They fired and fired and fired, but as expected didn't achieve any result at all. The weakgun's penetration value of zero meant that no damage at all should have been scored on the target and none was.

Second test was with the strong squad with it's ten strong guns. This squad caused significant damage on the target hex, what you would expect since when the ratio of penetration to protection is one or greater, as it is in this case, all the firepower of the firing unit is applied.

Final test was with the "1 strng 9 weak" squad. This was the significant test. I didn't have a lot of time to run the test over and over, but after several runs I did see the squad causing damage to the target some of the time. My impression was that it was causing damage that was perhaps a tenth of what the full squad of ten strong guns was doing.

I'll run some more tests.

24 Dec 08, 12:53
I did a further test where I compared the "1 strng 9wk" squad to a "1 strng only" squad. The scenario and data files are attached, same warning about backing up the original .dat files. I ran a couple of twenty turn scenarios, each squad firing against their own target The results were that the damage incurred by the targets was about the same, leading me to believe that if there are multiple weapon types the game engine handles that as two or more separate fire resolutions. So when attacking bunkers and the like, maybe you ought to not fire your low penetration weapons and save them for later!

Mike Cox
25 Dec 08, 00:38
So when attacking bunkers and the like, maybe you ought to not fire your low penetration weapons and save them for later!

This is the correct approach.

25 Dec 08, 10:41
This is the correct approach.

Which makes sense when you think of it in real terms versus pixel terms. Firing your M-1 at a pillbox isn't going to accomplish a whole lot to the guys inside short of a miraculous hit, but firing that bazooka sure would!