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View Full Version : SV Vietnam - Got my butt kicked in "The Battle of Dai Do - Part 1"



jztemple
04 Dec 08, 10:50
I played this a long, long time ago and don't remember doing this badly. I tried it yesterday as the US and suffered a Major Defeat, failing to grab a single objective. I did all the usual careful steps, kept my leaders back, used fire and movement, and still... :hurt:

Does anyone have any suggestion on how to do better?

TheBigRedOne
04 Dec 08, 10:57
I played this a long, long time ago and don't remember doing this badly. I tried it yesterday as the US and suffered a Major Defeat, failing to grab a single objective. I did all the usual careful steps, kept my leaders back, used fire and movement, and still... :hurt:

Does anyone have any suggestion on how to do better?

Well, maybe if they sent you more guys and bombed the hell out of the north, maybe they'd give up.

[name the movie]

I will take a look at the game on my lunch hour, but the one thing you should keep in mind is that a lot of the older titles, and VN is the oldest, don't have great balance in many of their scenarios. It wasn't until much later that balance became a big thing in scenario design. The intro scenario for VN is actually very tough to win.

Here is the PBEM log of that scenario, it seems weighted towards the NVA. The scenario database on the Blitz is a good reference to see how a scenario balances.

http://www.theblitz.org/scenarios/show_full_scenarios.php?scen=2500&game=53&ladder=10

Ozgur Budak
04 Dec 08, 11:09
Yes older titles' scenarios were particularly designed for Solo play. I recommend playing them as mirror games. Especially last three SB titles (SAW, WW and SCW) were playtested under the light of both solo and pbem games.

TheBigRedOne
04 Dec 08, 13:02
I just played it a bit 'fast and dirty' here at lunch and got a major loss. I would have taken a minor one, but I misjudged the time and wound up not taking that second objective in time.

Either way, it's a tough scenario for the USMC. Lots of open ground in front of well prepared defensive positions. I sent two platoons and attacked from the north of the one objective, using my bazooka teams to pin the defenders. I kept the other platoon in the rice paddy in front of the positions as my base of fire. I took a fair amount of losses before I could get in for the first assault, then moved past the pinned defenders and went after the 20 pointer in the center of the village (16,13). Switching the M-79 from HE to the CAN loading also helps when you get up close and in person. That tends to be a change I sometimes forget about.

In retrospect, I should have been more aggressive, the USMC really has the numbers here. Pinning a 3 man VC squad should make it easy to assault, although I did fail in my first attempt. I think if you go out hard and fast and get to the first two objectives early enough, the other two might be doable, but it's a rough road. Like I said, I pretty much flew through the scenario just to test it out. I had a minor loss until a leader got hit in the final turn.

jztemple
04 Dec 08, 13:24
Here is the PBEM log of that scenario, it seems weighted towards the NVA. The scenario database on the Blitz is a good reference to see how a scenario balances.

http://www.theblitz.org/scenarios/show_full_scenarios.php?scen=2500&game=53&ladder=10

Great minds think alike. I had checked out this page as well, as you say it's a good indication of the balance of the scenario. Even with a human player the NVA has little reason to ever move from it's setup positions.

Your comments about being more aggressive are intriguing. I often find myself suffering a loss because I just barely fail to seize the objectives in a fight on the last turn.

I looked in the map editor at the full map that contains the sub-map used for the scenario. Could be the basis for an interesting "mega-scenario". As US Forces leader you have a reinforced battalion and eight hours to seize some number of villages on the map. Especially interesting if you add hidden objectives such as several caches which give more points for the US player. The NVA player would only know which villages contain actual objective and cache hexes. And maybe even a couple of captive US units?

The default SB victory calculator may not be up to the job, but for PBEM it would be easy enough to give the players some hard objectives and penalties rather than just comparing points. For instance, if the US player utilizes a reinforcement company he is penalized, unless he also finds and frees the captive units.

TheBigRedOne
04 Dec 08, 13:50
Great minds think alike. I had checked out this page as well, as you say it's a good indication of the balance of the scenario. Even with a human player the NVA has little reason to ever move from it's setup positions.

Your comments about being more aggressive are intriguing. I often find myself suffering a loss because I just barely fail to seize the objectives in a fight on the last turn.

I have struggled on and off with my aggressiveness in SB. I think I tend to play a bit too passively at times when violence of action is called for. Problem is, if you're over-aggressive, you become vulnerable in other ways as well. I'm still trying to find the balance, that and taking more time to plot my strategy as the game unfurls.

The VC don't have much need to move in this scenario, that's for sure. If the Marines had a mortars or some off-board arty/helo support on hand to prep the area, it might make this scenario a touch more balanced. I started a second game, this time acting much more aggressively and was making good progress, but with some significant casualties, so much so that I'm not sure if I'd have been able to take the last two objectives. It seems that you pretty much need to take all four to pull out a 'win' in this one. Tall order.

jztemple
05 Dec 08, 10:39
I fought this battle again, but was very aggressive, pushing my US troops forward quickly, even bounding (jump up from "On Ground", go forward two hexes, drop) so I could get into M-79 canister range. Was able to seize all the objectives and got a Major Victory with 62 points! :D

With a few bad "dice rolls" it could have all gone horribly wrong of course, but that's why the fight the battles (run the horse races, hold the elections, etc). Thanks for the good advice!

TheBigRedOne
05 Dec 08, 11:24
In most scenarios I've found that you have to take the risk of basically 'get up and run' towards the objectives, especially if the turns are lower, as this one was. With the superior firepower and numbers, this is a scanario that screams "violence of action'.

Good work, Marine.

jztemple
05 Dec 08, 12:46
I added this thread as a new article (http://sites.google.com/site/jzs-place/jz-s-squad-battles-home-page/help-for-sb-vietnam--the-battle-of-dai-do---part-1) on my site.

I tried a different formatting technique than before, keeping the names of the posters and pretty much the text they provided, but removed the redundant quoted text and all the various icons and gadgets.