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Mike Cox
25 Nov 08, 11:36
Since the majority of games for the second round are complete and I would expect the others are reasonably well along, can we talk approaches to this?

Personally, I think it is a tough fight for the Finns, however, the results seem balanced. It seems to me that your choice of approach was key.

Mike Cox
25 Nov 08, 11:39
Cox as Finns

For my part, after having my lead unit get blasted off their motorcycle by the HMG, I used the crest line and field along the river to assemble my attack.
I sent the snipers and 1 of my MG's to the small village south of the road to prep the defenders. (The snipers were in this case spectacularly ineffective - 1 being killed before doing anything, the others never recorded an officer kill.)

Moving through the fields (and taking losses to mines) the units with DC's closed on the wooded objective. They were able to clear the stunned defenders easily. From there we could take the front line defenders in the flank. Using the tanks (and being wary of the AT gun) in combo with infantry we pushed them out of their prepared defenses.

Using the terrain (woods, fields grass) the next objective was prepped and then assaulted by good odds and a leader. At that point the 40 point objective was still Russian, but my opponent had no unpinned offensive squads.

Mike Cox
25 Nov 08, 11:54
Cox as Russians

This game is still ongoing (12/16 turns). Currently a minor Finn defeat, but Glyn is holding the wooded objective and poised to cause some hurt.

The story so far:

The Finns tried to flank along the ridge to the south. Russian mortars and HMG caused early havoc and quashed that threat early. He then split his advance to the fields to the north of the road (as I did) and straight up the middle, using the field as cover on the approach. The problem was he had no DC's to clear the wire obstacles and his infantry have had a tough time getting through. He did use tanks and armored cars on a flank move, but when he left an AC alone in the woods, the Russians assaulted, neutralizing it. At this point, we are in a bit of a standoff. I have 3 squads, but no leader. He has a few squads and a leader as well as MG's involved.

The fight for the wooded objective went well for a while, he lost leaders, but the better quality of the Finns prevailed. My recent attempt to retake it has left a pile of Pinned units.

I did move up my reserves to help out but they have been ineffective. We do hold the 2 rear objectives, but he still has a a few mobile tanks. I did immobilize one in the woods that tried a deep flank move, but at high cost.

Joao Lima
25 Nov 08, 15:55
As Fin, will copy and paste '...I used the crest line and field along the river to assemble my attack. ...'. But I also sent a small flanking force, in motorcycles, through the woods, that eventually managed to secure the 40 points objective (very cunning of me...). I goofed heavily on the first 20 point objective (and never secured it...) while loosing precious squads getting trounced as they crossed the road. And in typical fashion, also goofed by keeping 2 tanks at the end of my turn in sight of the opponent's AT gun...

As Russian, Just hold and wait... I secured most of the objectives, but lost due to losses.

Yes, I took lessons in the Frunze Academy. :-D

tallin
29 Nov 08, 11:03
Just my two cents, but I think the scenario is heavily balanced towards the Finn if the Finn flanks the forward Russian defenses.

However, if the Finn attacks the Russian position head on he will probably always be defeated. The Finnish player should take all his mobile units south through the woods and aims them at the 40 point objective, he will, invariably, take that objective and then work backwards to conquer the remaining vp hexes for a somewhat easy win (especially if the Russian is caught unawares of the flanking movement). I believe it is impossible for the Russian to deploy enough of his units as a forward picket line, in the woods, to prevent this Finnish flanking move, even if he knows the flanking manuever is coming.

Mike Cox
29 Nov 08, 23:09
Then again, Joao and I both used the river, and I did not even need the 40 point objective.

I do agree though that the scenario would seem to favor the Finns. But I like that there are plenty of options.

The woods would make me nervous since the armor is vulnerable to melee immobilizations. (For balance a couple of mines in there would certainly mix it up.)

TheBigRedOne
30 Nov 08, 10:09
Both Paul and I used flanking movements towards the 40 point objective. He took a tank and the armored cars, I took three trucks with 4-9 man squads plus the HQ section. I used the Finn mobility to hit the first objective from the flank and with some help from armored support charging through the obstacles, was able to obliterate the Russian defenders. I then used a three prong attack (sound more impresive than it is) by going after the next objective while hitting the Russian defenders across the road both from the front with my Finn squads and from the flank with the MGs, and from behind with two tanks and supporting infantry. I proceded to hit the Russian squad on that objective with tank fire from the front and sides before assaulting him with two fresh squads. At that point I had a major and we stopped. I think I might have gotten that 40 pointer eventually, but assaulting with only infantry may have been tough. Had I been smarter and taken a tank along, I probably would have had it without much issue.

I set up my sniper squad just behind a far city hex and managed to pin quite a number of Russian units, especially three that tried to run up the road to the defense of that 40 point objective. I opted not to worry about leader kills and used them to mainly weaken squads in the open. I got a fair number of pins from those two snipers. Kudos to them, they really played havoc on the Russians and kept some reinforcements from being able to help.

I'll let Paul talk about his smashing through my defenses after suffering a petty devestating, and lucky, shot by one of my field arty pieces in turn one.

In one comment, I don't know how truly realistic it would be for all of that flanking movement with trucks and tanks through the woods. I only had one vehicle get immobilized, a tank. I took those troop trucks all the way around with much trouble and with great speed. I didn't realize I had a big stack of trucks/tanks when I thought it was only a single truck, so I keep squandering movement for at least 4-5 turns before I realized my mistake. That delay really could have come back to bite me in the leg, but did force me into moving in behind the Russians and take the second objective.

I would agree with the comments that if the Finns stayed on the roads, it would be a tough run for them.

McIvan
01 Dec 08, 18:17
As a mirror game, with positions therefore known to both sides, highly biased toward the mobile Finns. I sent three motorcycle squads plus leader off to do the long end flank run on the 40 pointer, and secured it without too much trouble.....satchel charges did the damage. Wasn't worried about immobilisation in the forest....there was enough time to walk if necessary and attack late in the game.

All the other infantry and tanks/armoured cars flanked around the end of the first defence line and rolled it up methodically with shooting first and assault only after a couple of turns, eventually getting the 20 point objective. I pretty much only used the tanks/cars for shooting, not assaulting...the only times I did it cost me a T26 destroyed and later one immobilised; very fragile.

As Russians, I put flank guards out all over the place and reinforced the front line; also moved the 76mm guns and AA HMG forward and put a two squad infantry guard on the rear objective. The Finns instead tried a frontal attack after removing two sections of wire with satchel charges....overstacked themselves something shocking in front of non-pinned Russians and a 76mm and the AA HMG, and suffered heavily for their troubles. The Russians in IP forest hexes were really quite tough to shift. No flanking movements attempted at all, so never really got stretched.

Jhdeerslayer
04 Dec 08, 09:22
I sent most of my Finn's around my right flank but regreted not sending them way in the rear as my sneaky opponent did. Good job Joao! His plan was better actually.

I used armor along the river out of LOS to secure those VP's with an inf platoon as support.

My right flank attack was so large it seemed to steam roll up the Russian left.

Having played this one before I learned that a head on attack to the Russian positions was suicide. You have to flank and stay out of LOS on this one as much as possible.