Armor and Artillery

[John Paul]

I know that i have seen previous posts about the complete lack of anti-armor capability of artillery.Well during a series of bombardments in a current game,quite a few enemy tanks showed up in the disabled column.No other air or ground units were involved.Is this possible to do on a steady basis,or did Mars smile upon me this turn?

[Richard]

It's not that artillery can't take oyt tanks, just that the game does not do it enough.

10% of anti personnel factors can be used by the system as anti armour when bombarding

Thinking of the allied defence of tobruk as my primary source- the brits/aussies used artillery nearly exclusively to stop tank breakthroughs



Cheers

Richard

[Reno]

Also the Soviets used artillery commonly as an anti-tank weapon in WW2, TOAW models this feature very poorly.

[Chuck?]

What about the other way around: should anti-tank guns have some effect against personal? Do they in TOAW?

[ER_Chaser]

yes, typical example is the deadly 88 (it is too famous to model it wrong, maybe :D)

[John Paul]

So if you place enough firepower into a hex,your gonna break a few eggs is the jist of it?Makes sense,though i think this is the first time that this has occured for me,so i was kinda geeked about it.

[ER_Chaser]

I just found this probably is probably another problem for the database /concept of ACOW.

The modern howitzers or field guns DO have long range AT abilities with laser guided shells.

I looked up in post WWII (actually even for Paladin system), they do have the ability to do "precision attacks", but still no AT values. I think it is not true. In gulf war, the US troops successfully used laser guided shells from their M109 155mm howitzers to destroy Iraq armored formations. And I recently hit into an article stating that the "Copperhead" shell fired from 155mm's has a max range of 17km with .5-.9m precision. A separate notice is that shells from 155mm's can destroy a modern tank if it explodes within 2m radius of the target.

So I feel maybe those modern arties were seriously underrated.

[JMS]

You sure about the operational use of Copperhead? AFAIK it didn't go into production due to cost. AFAIK the only laser artilley shell available is the "Merlin" mortar round.

[ER_Chaser]

I am not 100% sure ... :D (how can I be?) ... But from various sources, I do believe copperhead is in service (I'd bet on 99% if not 100%). About its effectiveness in the gulf war, I only read one article, so it is not so sure (besides, it only mentioned laser guided shells, did not specify copperhead, well, however, for 155mm's, I think there is only one LGM, that is copperhead.).

Many sources do blame the shell to be unstable in bad weather and expensive. And there are claims saying that Pentagon stopped further development on this device ---- I think that is why you felt it was not in service. ... It is just that Pentagon switched to some more advanced seeker (microwave, heat image..) to increase the stability and range. Very likely the newer systems will be even more expensive, so probably cost would not be a reason to stop its service.

But for some sure answer, probably we should ask our military friends to answer, maybe some are serving in the artillery units :) .. of course, if these kind of things are not classified. :clown:

[JMS]

I see where are you getting. You are not referring to Copperhead which was cancelled but to DPICM and smart ammo. This are submunitions that come out of the shell in the air and deploy either a parachute or small fins to delay their falling to earth. Some of the have MMW radar or infrared sensor that detect an armored vehicle, firing a shaped charge when it enters the firing parameters. In case no vehicle is detected they either lay as mines of blow up anyway (just in case).