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View Full Version : Eagle Strike's 'Hamm Sandwich'



FastPhil
14 Dec 06, 21:21
What's up with this scenario? German's on the attack(supposed to be counterattacking) US holds all objectives . German STARTS with a major victory. Why would the German player bother to attack other than wanting to play a game?:nuts:

Ozgur Budak
15 Dec 06, 04:13
Germans are going to attack a very strong american position. It looks like the scenario designer predicted germans will have heavy casualties in attack so they start with a major victory. Thats a common design trick in such situations. It doesnt create problems against AI but may lead to "very" gamey tactics against a human opponent who aims too much for winning. Such victory conditions are frequent in titles with high risk assault missions like Proud and the Few.

TheBigRedOne
18 Dec 06, 13:55
. German STARTS with a major victory. Why would the German player bother to attack other than wanting to play a game?

I always thought the point of PBEM was to play the game and have fun trying tactics with your opponent, not to sit back and try to 'win' based on the game setup. I could see where it would be easy to exploit the situation, but I'd imagine that if someone did this a lot that they'd really have a tough time finding opponents to play.

Ozgur Budak
19 Dec 06, 05:27
You are right Alan. It is completely against the spirit of the hobby. SB is a small community and I didnt encounter with such persons but bigger communities like PzC CM or SP have some risk.

FastPhil
19 Dec 06, 12:07
Germans are going to attack a very strong american position. It looks like the scenario designer predicted germans will have heavy casualties in attack so they start with a major victory. Thats a common design trick in such situations. It doesnt create problems against AI but may lead to "very" gamey tactics against a human opponent who aims too much for winning. Such victory conditions are frequent in titles with high risk assault missions like Proud and the Few.

I think my point is being missed. Why not make the reward worth the risk? Assign the VP hexes higher points making it worth the German's casualties and force him to attack to win. A properly designed and tested scenario should never present an issue of being gamey. I don't mind losing a bit as my record, in this club and the MBC and PZC indicate :cry: but I feel there is a better way. JMHO

Ozgur Budak
19 Dec 06, 13:30
I got your point Phil. I just tried to explain the reason behind that design; and yes I agree the way you described is more appopriate for designing such situations. A designer should also take care of the possible unhistorical playing types the scenario may open doors. Not as easy as it is said though.

FastPhil
20 Dec 06, 13:28
I always thought the point of PBEM was to play the game and have fun trying tactics with your opponent, not to sit back and try to 'win' based on the game setup. I could see where it would be easy to exploit the situation, but I'd imagine that if someone did this a lot that they'd really have a tough time finding opponents to play.

Your are right in all respects except that the game setup should reward good tactics and not encourage bad tactics or 'gamey' tactics. Even then if the scenario is really unbalanced good tactics may not be rewarded. I have been playing PBEM including the Boardgame "ASL" for more years than I can remember and unfortunately you will find 'gamers' where ever you go and it seems to be growing. Some of this is expressed in the adoption of house rules(to prevent perceived gamey tactics) and others in the PS/GC/XB/NI PC games cheat codes. Fortunately I have run into few players that do that but you still do.

My preferred method is to agree before hand to play an entire SB series as one side and no house rules. So far I have completed TOD/VN/KOR as the US, and have PW/P&F/ as the Japanese and ES as the Germans ongoing. This way you get both the good and the bad scenarios for a side. If anyone would like to engage in this type of protracted engagement drop me a line. I would prefer when replaying a series to take the opposite side of that I previously played.