View Full Version : Is Game worthwhile ?
After reading through some of the threads on the problems some of you are having with the game, I have to ask this, are you all happy with it ? was it worth the monetary investment ?, and to Norm, are you reading these bug threads ?
Commodore Rob
10 Aug 06, 03:23
Yes I am very happy with it, only problem i have is lack of playing time:)
I'm happy with it. Worth the investment IMHO.
The game is simply gripping. My wife starts to hate it :-D
Commodore Rob
10 Aug 06, 03:48
lol
Always a good sign:)
If you are into the RJW/naval history in general, like playing naval strategy games/simulators, are willing to put up with a few bugs which will be sorted out (or which may not affect you at all) and have $59.95 knocking about spare then this game is for you!
After reading through some of the threads on the problems some of you are having with the game, I have to ask this, are you all happy with it ? was it worth the monetary investment ?, and to Norm, are you reading these bug threads ?
There is a demo for download. Give it a try I think you will like it.
I think you will be surprised.
Yep, I'm happy. I'm not even really "into" naval games per se. The devs are aware of the bugs and the fixes are coming in thick and fast.
There is a demo for download. Give it a try I think you will like it.
I think you will be surprised.
I have it and like it very much !
If you are into the RJW/naval history in general, like playing naval strategy games/simulators, are willing to put up with a few bugs which will be sorted out (or which may not affect you at all) and have $59.95 knocking about spare then this game is for you!
I am and do, and the exchange rate for the game in Aussie $ is about $84 and I'm happy to pay that, all I'd like is a stable game, and thus far the demo is stable, however there appear to be issues with the campain that worry me.
There are some issues with the campaign that are only affecting some people. For example, I've never had the "black screen" isssue that some have witnessed. The devs seem to be asking questions and are trying to get to the root of this problem. The support for this game is second-to-none.
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 05:23
After reading through some of the threads on the problems some of you are having with the game, I have to ask this, are you all happy with it ? was it worth the monetary investment ?, and to Norm, are you reading these bug threads ?
Yes, game is worthwhile.
And, support is coming and bugs are dealed with. There is one important thing, developers are here actually listening to gamers...
For example those monkeys at Paradox Entertainment... Yes, they did make excellent game HoI 2. BUT!!!
But, as I was fan of HoI 1 and when I saw that in HoI 2 lazy Paradox didn't included set of sprites for all units and that killed the game for me.. At least made it a lot less interesting! Those on forums were also stupid suggesting use NATO icons, well I use sprites...
And what? Paradox didn't listened and they probably expected that gamers will made sprites in a mod... And that didn't happened, I think it was not so easy to make...
So, that is example of a lousy developer... And Norm Koger is certanly not example like Paradox, he will certanly deliver all what should have been in the game so that game be fun for playing.
Mario
There are some issues with the campaign that are only affecting some people. For example, I've never had the "black screen" isssue that some have witnessed. The devs seem to be asking questions and are trying to get to the root of this problem. The support for this game is second-to-none.
What is this "black screen" ?, I had similar fears when I pre bought Silent Hunter III, then began reading about all manner of problems people were having with the game, and I ended up having no problems at all, for me money is not everything. I want value for money, and you guys are putting up a very convincing argument and if the support is as good as you say then I may buy the full game.
Yes, game is worthwhile.
And, support is coming and bugs are dealed with. There is one important thing, developers are here actually listening to gamers...
For example those monkeys at Paradox Entertainment... Yes, they did make excellent game HoI 2. BUT!!!
But, as I was fan of HoI 1 and when I saw that in HoI 2 lazy Paradox didn't included set of sprites for all units and that killed the game for me.. At least made it a lot less interesting! Those on forums were also stupid suggesting use NATO icons, well I use sprites...
And what? Paradox didn't listened and they probably expected that gamers will made sprites in a mod... And that didn't happened, I think it was not so easy to make...
So, that is example of a lousy developer... And Norm Koger is certanly not example like Paradox, he will certanly deliver all what should have been in the game so that game be fun for playing.
Mario
Hi Mario, what is HoI 2 ?
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 05:42
Hi Mario, what is HoI 2 ?
hearts of iron 2
ww2 strategic game, but light in concept... comparing to toaw complexity for example...
it's good game but as I am child in my soul :clown: I play with sprites and I liked when you research new tank and produce it in HoI 1 you get new sprite... Now in HoI 2 all planes were looking the same, cavarly looked like infantry etc... pure developers lazyiness.
Mario
WallysWorld
10 Aug 06, 10:23
I am and do, and the exchange rate for the game in Aussie $ is about $84 and I'm happy to pay that, all I'd like is a stable game, and thus far the demo is stable, however there appear to be issues with the campain that worry me.
Bill44, I paid about $70 CAD and haven't regretted at all.
Yes, there are some issues with the campaigns, but the developers are working on them fast and furious. Even the programmer of the ships' graphics is making updates based upon the players' opinions. Very, very good support!
I've had very few issues with the game, and have already gotten my money's worth out of it (Which is a good thing since it's going to be showing up on this month's credit card bill :) ). I can see myself playing it for years to come, especially once they add in some more options for the computer generated battles.
Commodore Rob
10 Aug 06, 10:38
I already got my CC bill:(
Yes, game is worthwhile.
And, support is coming and bugs are dealed with. There is one important thing, developers are here actually listening to gamers...
For example those monkeys at Paradox Entertainment... Yes, they did make excellent game HoI 2. BUT!!!
But, as I was fan of HoI 1 and when I saw that in HoI 2 lazy Paradox didn't included set of sprites for all units and that killed the game for me.. At least made it a lot less interesting! Those on forums were also stupid suggesting use NATO icons, well I use sprites...
And what? Paradox didn't listened and they probably expected that gamers will made sprites in a mod... And that didn't happened, I think it was not so easy to make...
So, that is example of a lousy developer... And Norm Koger is certanly not example like Paradox, he will certanly deliver all what should have been in the game so that game be fun for playing.
Mario
You call paradox lazy when their game probably required the most research of any game ever divised on computer. You complain about sprites, lol wow , I thought I was picky. I have the game to and could care one cent less if the sprites were icons of bananas. They do there purposes and they differenciate between plane and tank and soldier. you expect them to have every model of tank and plane and soldier animated ? Thats alot of animations and needless ones.The game has the main political groupings for every country in the world between 36 to 53 along with each countries military designs from sea to plane to foot and they throw in the top companies within th country that you can hire to research thinigs, for christ sake I was looking through the file about companies and for the US (me) I saw "Southern Railyway" Its not even in game but somebody thought it was important enough to put it in, (southern railway was a higly sucessfull railroad on the east coast of the US.) and in HoI2 terms it is small stuff, but they still put it in, THATs detail. Thats something to be proud of the devs for, not complaining about the most miniscule detail in the game. Wow I thought I had heard everything about HoI2. Asking for different sprites is no where near anything as miniscule as what I have hinted at about DG. Nice going Bloodstar!
You know thats the equivalent as me asking why didn't these lazy devs on DG incorporate holes from shells in smoke stacks? Lol I have siad that and have been drug through the thorn bushes for it. PS. Ironhand wants the same detail devs!
Lempereur1
10 Aug 06, 13:17
It appears you DO have an ax to grind dont you?
Research?
HOw about the entire structure of every single country that fielded an army from the top all the way down to the squad level as in Talonsofts campaign series. IT is the most comprehensive, exhaustive work ever done in any computer game.
My friend, you do not know what you are talking about.... You dont know what real research is...
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 13:22
You call paradox lazy when their game probably required the most research of any game ever divised on computer. You complain about sprites, lol wow , I thought I was picky. I have the game to and could care one cent less if the sprites were icons of bananas. They do there purposes and they differenciate between plane and tank and soldier. you expect them to have every model of tank and plane and soldier animated ? Thats alot of animations and needless ones.The game has the main political groupings for every country in the world between 36 to 53 along with each countries military designs from sea to plane to foot and they throw in the top companies within th country that you can hire to research thinigs, for christ sake I was looking through the file about companies and for the US (me) I saw "Southern Railyway" Its not even in game but somebody thought it was important enough to put it in, (southern railway was a higly sucessfull railroad on the east coast of the US.) and in HoI2 terms it is small stuff, but they still put it in, THATs detail. Thats something to be proud of the devs for, not complaining about the most miniscule detail in the game. Wow I thought I had heard everything about HoI2. Asking for different sprites is no where near anything as miniscule as what I have hinted at about DG. Nice going Bloodstar!
You know thats the equivalent as me asking why didn't these lazy devs on DG incorporate holes from shells in smoke stacks? Lol I have siad that and have been drug through the thorn bushes for it. PS. Ironhand wants the same detail devs!
Look don't have a tiem and patience to respond to your private messages... Post it on forum and I will reply LOL :)
You obviously didn't understand a thing. I am big fan of HoI. Also HoI 2 is great game I didn't said that it is bad!
About sprites - that is nice feature that was removed from HoI 2 without reason! It is stupid from you to try to minimilize this and making as a small thing. It's not from me.
It's very big immersion and gameplay thing as well, and as HoI 2 tend to get boring with time it is nice when you make new tank and say aha wow here it is my new Tiger or whatever :clown:
And I don't want to argue with you but at least try to listen to argumenets and facts and respect other people opinion. Nothing less.
And certanly I don't have time to respond to your pm you just made me laugh a bit :D
And at least I paid HoI2 lol... so if I rant about sprites I have full right to do so.
Maro
Daniel Sturgis
10 Aug 06, 13:27
After reading through some of the threads on the problems some of you are having with the game, I have to ask this, are you all happy with it ? was it worth the monetary investment ?, and to Norm, are you reading these bug threads ?
I haven't had any trouble and its a great game.
Look don't have a tiem and patience to respond to your private messages... Post it on forum and I will reply LOL :)
You obviously didn't understand a thing. I am big fan of HoI. Also HoI 2 is great game I didn't said that it is bad!
About sprites - that is nice feature that was removed from HoI 2 without reason! It is stupid from you to try to minimilize this and making as a small thing. It's not from me.
It's very big immersion and gameplay thing as well, and as HoI 2 tend to get boring with time it is nice when you make new tank and say aha wow here it is my new Tiger or whatever :clown:
And I don't want to argue with you but at least try to listen to argumenets and facts and respect other people opinion. Nothing less.
And certanly I don't have time to respond to your pm you just made me laugh a bit :D
And at least I paid HoI2 lol... so if I rant about sprites I have full right to do so.
Maro
You are just dumb now, DID I EVER SAY I YOU HATE HoI2 NO so stop putting words in my mouth ,If you can bash me for my opinions which aren't as near picky as yours' I can make it apparent the saddness in your plea for the unique sprites . which is the pickiest thing I've ever heard from a ranter. They have real pictures of every unit you research and develope, you can look at those if you get that bored, and when you are conquering the enemy, I do not see how you would care. Like I said earlier your a great forum mod, you can't even respond to pms because your to busy putting up these false posts in response to my truthful ones.
And lempeuar whatever, link me to this game more in depth than hoi2 I'll be the judge , I can tell you right now I do know what I speak of and you , once again are sleflessy defending some nothing game I've never heard of . But ammuse me post something about it or link in the direction.
hearts of iron 2
ww2 strategic game, but light in concept... comparing to toaw complexity for example...
it's good game but as I am child in my soul :clown: I play with sprites and I liked when you research new tank and produce it in HoI 1 you get new sprite... Now in HoI 2 all planes were looking the same, cavarly looked like infantry etc... pure developers lazyiness.
Mario
Ah, HOI2. I have all three HOI, HOI2, and HOIDD. I have to say, I like the way research is done in HOI2/DD. It is more streamlined. Oh I use the counters, so sprites are not an issue with me:laugh:
But, the AI is horrible. There have been times that I disbanded the entire Soviet military, and the AI just left me alone.
I did recently play it multi player. I got tired of people complaining "It's too slow, speed it up."
I ripped Paradox a new one on their Victoria game. Not because of graphics, but game play. It disappointed me so much that it is the only game in the EU line I got rid of.
You are just dumb now, DID I EVER SAY I YOU HATE HoI2
.
Can you point out in that quote where he said you did?
Lempereur1 is right. You do have an axe to grind.
If you hate the game so much, why do you continue? It's been established beyond doubt that you will not buy it. It's been established beyond doubt that for many, the game is worth the price. That every computer game has bugs. Even books have them. Model kits have them. Cars have them. All of them older products than computer games.
You're not going to buy it. And they are not going to make it freeware.
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 14:24
You are just dumb now, DID I EVER SAY I YOU HATE HoI2 NO so stop putting words in my mouth ,If you can bash me for my opinions which aren't as near picky as yours' I can make it apparent the saddness in your plea for the unique sprites . which is the pickiest thing I've ever heard from a ranter. They have real pictures of every unit you research and develope, you can look at those if you get that bored, and when you are conquering the enemy, I do not see how you would care. Like I said earlier your a great forum mod, you can't even respond to pms because your to busy putting up these false posts in response to my truthful ones.
And lempeuar whatever, link me to this game more in depth than hoi2 I'll be the judge , I can tell you right now I do know what I speak of and you , once again are sleflessy defending some nothing game I've never heard of . But ammuse me post something about it or link in the direction.
Hey young man chill out, will ya? :D
And I am not moderator, otherwise I would have banned you long time ago :p
Yes, sprites are not so big deal but for me they are! Do you have problem with that young man?
Look that was stupid from Paradox to remove it. Feel free to disagree. And calling me stupid :clown: whole forum obviously laughed their asses off of your ignorant, childish posts, that where appropriate for a 11-year old boy.
Now get of my back and take a hike. Beat it! :D
Mario
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 14:28
Ah, HOI2. I have all three HOI, HOI2, and HOIDD. I have to say, I like the way research is done in HOI2/DD. It is more streamlined. Oh I use the counters, so sprites are not an issue with me:laugh:
But, the AI is horrible. There have been times that I disbanded the entire Soviet military, and the AI just left me alone.
I did recently play it multi player. I got tired of people complaining "It's too slow, speed it up."
I ripped Paradox a new one on their Victoria game. Not because of graphics, but game play. It disappointed me so much that it is the only game in the EU line I got rid of.
I like their gameas a lot... I also have Victoria, yes a weak title, but interesting... The sprite issue is not so big but I am playing with them so... I can understand that it is no issue for people that play with counters.
But, I play even TOAW in "3D" mode as I like panzers rolling, soldiers etc... Almost no-one is playing TOAW in 3D mode but I like it.
Kudos to TalonSoft artist that made TOAW graphics (to Jim Rose), still clean and sharp after so many years!
Mario
I like their gameas a lot... I also have Victoria, yes a weak title, but interesting... The sprite issue is not so big but I am playing with them so... I can understand that it is no issue for people that play with counters.
But, I play even TOAW in "3D" mode as I like panzers rolling, soldiers etc... Almost no-one is playing TOAW in 3D mode but I like it.
Kudos to TalonSoft artist that made TOAW graphics (to Jim Rose), still clean and sharp after so many years!
Mario
The sprites are nice. When I had Victoria, I liked watching the troops march around. Why they dropped the ball with it, who knows. Lazy or an oversight
Have you tried any of the Historical Stony Road mods for HOI?
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 14:47
The sprites are nice. When I had Victoria, I liked watching the troops march around. Why they dropped the ball with it, who knows. Lazy or an oversight
Have you tried any of the Historical Stony Road mods for HOI?
Good question.
I played a lot Stony Road on HoI 1 - and finished game in that mod, but not GROFAZ difficulty :)... I've heard that Stony Road for HoI 2 is also very good, I plan to try it sometime.
Mario
Good question.
I played a lot Stony Road on HoI 1 - and finished game in that mod, but not GROFAZ difficulty :)... I've heard that Stony Road for HoI 2 is also very good, I plan to try it sometime.
Mario Did you get HOI2 DD yet? The only difference that I can see is that it extends the game to 1953.
Oh, Paradox is launching an expansion to Victoria that will take that game to 1935 http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=3545
Ironhand save me the trouble would you here
"You obviously didn't understand a thing. I am big fan of HoI. Also HoI 2 is great game I didn't said that it is bad!" - bloodstar., I never once said you did bloodstar cool your jets little boy.
You complain flame me for complaining about price and then you turn around and shed a tear about sprites in hoi2 thats what I have a problem with. You are like so many others out there, where whatever a game has on the table is never good enough for you, you nit pick the finest details and cry about them. I come here to make a larger picture evident not just holes in smoke stack or sprites lol . sprites , i'm getting thirsty.
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 15:21
Ironhand save me the trouble would you here
"You obviously didn't understand a thing. I am big fan of HoI. Also HoI 2 is great game I didn't said that it is bad!" - bloodstar., I never once said you did bloodstar cool your jets little boy.
You complain flame me for complaining about price and then you turn around and shed a tear about sprites in hoi2 thats what I have a problem with. You are like so many others out there, where whatever a game has on the table is never good enough for you, you nit pick the finest details and cry about them. I come here to make a larger picture evident not just holes in smoke stack or sprites lol . sprites , i'm getting thirsty.
Well, actually, uhm no, you are wrong. As I play with sprites and no counters for me is important that fighter look like fighter, and that cavarly division look like a man on a horse not footman.
Did you played HoI 1 from beginning? Did you read many awesome AAR's on Paradox boards? Well to tell you all those sprites did have a role even there.
And gameplay wise now all planes when I play as Germany looks almost the same. Tanks looks the same etc... And during gameplay as planes are the same many times you just don't know where is fighter and where is bomber. So that have influenced gameplay as well.
Look feel free to disagree as much as you want, don't want to discuss your fabulous posts anymore, you are amusing that I must admit haha :D
Mario
I've added Mr. Weeq sauce to my ignore list. I suggest the rest of the forum does the same.
Never argue with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
vertical
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 15:24
Did you get HOI2 DD yet? The only difference that I can see is that it extends the game to 1953.
Oh, Paradox is launching an expansion to Victoria that will take that game to 1935 http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=3545
Well, no I didn't get HoI 2 DD expansion, there is some small changes but Cold War era is of no interest to me for example.
This expansion for Victoria looks interesting but don't know - maybe too late to spark my interest here. :)
But, Europa Universalis 3 looks interesting in new engine. I guess that they will the make HoI 3 in that engine :clown:
Mario
I've added Mr. Weeq sauce to my ignore list. I suggest the rest of the forum does the same.
vertical
It is done.
Well, no I didn't get HoI 2 DD expansion, there is some small changes but Cold War era is of no interest to me for example.
This expansion for Victoria looks interesting but don't know - maybe too late to spark my interest here. :)
But, Europa Universalis 3 looks interesting in new engine. I guess that they will the make HoI 3 in that engine :clown:
Mario
I just loved EU I and 2. It does look good in a 3D engine. But I hope it has more than that.
I would really like to see them try doing a game on Rome. From Agustus all the way to 476 AD.
Hinchinbrooke
10 Aug 06, 16:11
Much recommended!! I've always been fascinated by the world of pre-dreadnoughts, armoured cruisers, etc., etc. This for me captures something special, and the support seems on the money!
Much recommended!! I've always been fascinated by the world of pre-dreadnoughts, armoured cruisers, etc., etc. This for me captures something special, and the support seems on the money!
Yes!! I'd like to see more like it. Even some of the earlier ships, even if it's just hypothetical engagements.
Like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Inflexible_%281881%29
This one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Devastation_%281871%29
This one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_%281891%29
I could go on, but you get the idea:cool:
Yes!! I'd like to see more like it. Even some of the earlier ships, even if it's just hypothetical engagements.
Like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Inflexible_%281881%29
This one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Devastation_%281871%29
This one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_%281891%29
I could go on, but you get the idea:cool:
They Bombarded Alexandria. I suspect these would be pretty dull in a simulation.
After reading through some of the threads on the problems some of you are having with the game, I have to ask this, are you all happy with it ? was it worth the monetary investment ?, and to Norm, are you reading these bug threads ?
I think this game would be hard to beat: its fast, very cool, things blow up and I haven't had any trouble with it.
Just realised I never actually answered the specific questions so.........
1. Yes, I am happy with the game
2. Yes, it was worth paying $59.95 for
3. Yes, Norm (and Jim) read and act on the bug threads
Now, are you buying this game or what ??:laugh:
Well, actually, uhm no, you are wrong. As I play with sprites and no counters for me is important that fighter look like fighter, and that cavarly division look like a man on a horse not footman.
Did you played HoI 1 from beginning? Did you read many awesome AAR's on Paradox boards? Well to tell you all those sprites did have a role even there.
And gameplay wise now all planes when I play as Germany looks almost the same. Tanks looks the same etc... And during gameplay as planes are the same many times you just don't know where is fighter and where is bomber. So that have influenced gameplay as well.
Look feel free to disagree as much as you want, don't want to discuss your fabulous posts anymore, you are amusing that I must admit haha :D
Mario
Uhm yes I am right? what gives you the right to argue with me about fine details in Dg But restricts the right of myself to argue with you about the "sprites" your extreme pickiness has a problem with. Maybe besides having a autism when it comes to typing in english or scanning over what you read you also have one in deciphering it's meaning aswell. I don't care if you can't speak english very good you should have enough sense to know saying things like "I'm just saiding that" are not right and to fix them it makes you look like an infant typing. And it shows your complete laziness to edit it, just like the same "laziness" of the hard working paradox crew in not putting your beloved couple pixel icons of a couple hundred differnent units.
And vertical might as well be a kid holding his ears shut going "la la la I cant hear you!" its the same basis , its sorry and it inmature, he can't stand to hear truth so he ignores lol what a child.
Bloodstar
10 Aug 06, 19:05
Uhm yes I am right? what gives you the right to argue with me about fine details in Dg But restricts the right of myself to argue with you about the "sprites" your extreme pickiness has a problem with. Maybe besides having a autism when it comes to typing in english or scanning over what you read you also have one in deciphering it's meaning aswell. I don't care if you can't speak english very good you should have enough sense to know saying things like "I'm just saiding that" are not right and to fix them it makes you look like an infant typing. And it shows your complete laziness to edit it, just like the same "laziness" of the hard working paradox crew in not putting your beloved couple pixel icons of a couple hundred differnent units.
And vertical might as well be a kid holding his ears shut going "la la la I cant hear you!" its the same basis , its sorry and it inmature, he can't stand to hear truth so he ignores lol what a child.
Look weequayx - I already said what I have to say to you. Now, take your toys and go play somewhere else or talk with someone else. I have finished talking to you.
Bye!
Mario
Uhm yes I am right? what gives you the right to argue with me about fine details in Dg But restricts the right of myself to argue with you about the "sprites" your extreme pickiness has a problem with. Maybe besides having a autism when it comes to typing in english or scanning over what you read you also have one in deciphering it's meaning aswell. I don't care if you can't speak english very good you should have enough sense to know saying things like "I'm just saiding that" are not right and to fix them it makes you look like an infant typing. And it shows your complete laziness to edit it, just like the same "laziness" of the hard working paradox crew in not putting your beloved couple pixel icons of a couple hundred differnent units.
And vertical might as well be a kid holding his ears shut going "la la la I cant hear you!" its the same basis , its sorry and it inmature, he can't stand to hear truth so he ignores lol what a child.
weequayx ; you have a serious problem. I can tell that, and I've hardly played the damn game.
You also obviously have no idea what autism is, have no manners, and no sense of proportion. You do, however, have an interesting "approach" and you might find it of benefit to discuss this with someone who has suitable professional qualifications.
They Bombarded Alexandria. I suspect these would be pretty dull in a simulation.
I suppose so. However, if a game such as Action Stations can allow you to stage battles that never happenned, or Matrixgames allow you to play out War Plan Orange, why not DG going in that direction in the future?
eh, just a thought.
saddletank
10 Aug 06, 19:28
Gents, as a moderator, may I suggest that if you do not wish to read the posts of any other user because you find their content offensive, then rather than discussing things with that user (who may be seeking a fight with anyone who will bite back) you go into your UserCP (top left of the page) and set that username to 'ignore' status. Then that user will just no longer exist for you on the SZO forums unless other forum members quote his posts which, of course, you will see.
Thanks
Thanks Martin (Saddletank).
Just done it. Thanks for the advice. I'm a bit new to forums and didn't realize there was an "ignore". It will stop me biting at the bait.
Martin :)
Vigilante
10 Aug 06, 21:13
I've hit the "ignore" and that's a good feature. Problem is, many of us are devoted naval wargamers who have been at this for years -or decades - with miniatures and cardboard and, finally, on a computer screen. This is a specialized hobby and Distant Guns is a niche game made for a gaming platform that is losing market share to dedicated platforms that cater to younger mass audiences and do not support gamers like ourselves. Simply put, if we want to see more games like this we have to support them and to make that support very visible.
I'm also involved in the combat flight sim hobby and I have watched it decline from a major force in the industry to small niche served primarily by Eastern European developers who can, because of the exchange rate, survive on marginal profits. In my opinion, much of this decline has been caused by self-destructive forces among the gamers themselves that manifest themselves in aggressive behavior in gaming forums. One typical forum scenario is the "War of Experten" in which various forum members attempt to attain dominance by demonstrating their superior knowledge, arguing with each other and mocking or condescending to the non-cogniscenti. Two camps ultimately emerge, one side attacking the "realism" of the game or elements thereof, and the other side defending it. I'm sure that you've all seen this scenario play itself out in forums time and time again.
A recurring problem with specialized hobbies is attracting new blood. When the hobby is computer gaming and the game is a simulation, realism is an important factor and debate concerning realism is not only inevitable but is frequently illuminating and helpful to gamers and developers alike. If carried out cordially and with maturity, this kind of conversation can spur interest in the genre and attract new players to the hobby. But when a conversation regarding realism, pricing, or what-have-you is simply a vehicle for antisocial and aggressive behavior on the part of a person who has no true interest in the hobby, casual readers who might otherwise become interested in the niche and become the next generation of hobbists may be driven off. This hurts all of us, and hitting the "ignore" button does not solve the problem.
I think that hypercritical trolling is a real threat to niche hobbies and that those who engage in it should be banned for the good of the community. It can be difficult for a moderator to distinguish the antisocial troll from the person who has had a bad day or simply lacks social skills but, as former Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said in attempting to define pornography, "I know it when I see it."
Admiral Nelson
10 Aug 06, 21:22
Can't agree more. Just look at the whining about Theater of Warover on the Battlefront fora. "What, it doesn't include the PzKW 1b mit Grossen Schuffhauser??? I'm not buying this POS...." etc etc etc....
Lempereur1
10 Aug 06, 21:23
Vigil:
Here Here!
Having worked on Jet Fighter 4 before retiring from Take Two, I saw what you are describing first hand. Most gamers want to have fun. They dont mind if the realism crowd is slighly displeased with how the plane pulls the G forces on the hard right turn, as long as it is generally realistic.
THis does hurt in the long run, because you end up only pleasing 50% of the hard core.
I had a recent conversation with long time industry vertern Carl Norman, former SSI vet, on this very issue. He said that you are going ot piss off 50% of the hard core because its not realistic enough, or piss off the other 50% because its too hard to play!
The most enjoyable flight sim I ever played was the origianl Red Baron. Was it ultra realistic? No. Was it hard to play? No, was it a butt load of fun?
Absloutlely!
I still thinkit may be the best ever, with Micrprose F-15 Strike Eagle and Kights of the Sky close behind it! (I loved to play games with those North Vietnam SAMS!)
I suppose so. However, if a game such as Action Stations can allow you to stage battles that never happenned, or Matrixgames allow you to play out War Plan Orange, why not DG going in that direction in the future?
eh, just a thought.
Well.....I myself would love to have as many ships simulated as possible....but I suspect there are big problems having interesting battles with ships like the Monitor and the Merrimac/Virginia or even the Ironclads of the 1870s (such as the set that bombarded Alexandria). By the time you reach the Spanish-American War most warships would be functional enough to give a player something to do. Really anything from 550 BC til now is fine with me, but I have my doubts about some of the more dysfunctional ships such as giant catapult ships (one apparently sailed the Black Sea and Levant for almost 200 years, being taken as useless booty by successive potentates) or most Ironclads of the 1870s. I'd like to see them, but its hard to imagine a good scenario with them.
Lempereur1
10 Aug 06, 22:09
It may be hard to get the Iron Clad period to translate to something fun.
We will, at some point, do a proto type testing to see if it can be made fun.
I remember a game that was funded by oneof the big California game companies int he late 1990s ala Monitor vs Merrimac.
They let the game get all the way to the 80% completion point, only to kill it becasue all they did was bounce cannon balls off each other.
Granted, this was the first encounter of the era, but the problems are still there.
I'm an active Admin/Member in the MORK clan. (Yeah, I know, I'm 47 and I should know better.) Anyway, we play CoD and also run our own league. We are a very strong, mainly mature, group with over 70 active members. We run the 2nd busiest server in the world running CoD.
Since the arrival of Co2 last year, the CoD community has attracted many younger players. Clans of kids have sprung up all over. Our chaps played in a league match two nights ago. The disrespectful abuse reported back to me was unbelievable! It saddens me to say this sort of behaviour is becoming common place within our community. MORK Clan are good, we've won plenty of league titles, but we are beatable and we get beaten. The kids then gloat, swear and abuse our members because they've taken a scalp. If you're good, you are up there on a pedestal waiting to be knocked down, we accept this, but we will not tolerate this sort of behaviour. These young clans fall apart as fast as they grow. We've seen them come and go and we are still there, as strong as ever, but disruption they cause is saddening. They're like a plague.
Activision are releasing CoD3 later this year and it's only available for consoles. The consoles attract the younger audience so I can only see this situation becoming worse. Call me old fashioned, but I believe the behaviour of some younger people are destroying the pleasure, and good fun, that can be had from PC gaming. I also believe the consoles are slowly destroying PC gaming as a whole.
We now have an 'over 21 policy' when I comes to accepting new members.
I remember that stuff when I was into Team Fortress, Counter Strike and Day of Defeat. Cries of camper, pansie, I win, (as if a team game has a single winner.) And if you happenned to have a girl's moniker, they spent more time making passes at you than playing.
Add: I didn't mean go back to the Civil War. Though I wouldn't mind one that allows you to fight the war at sea. Mobile Bay, the brief career of the CSS Arkansas. Running or enforcing the blockade. I was thinking around the Spanish American War, or a little earlier.:D
Vigilante
10 Aug 06, 23:21
I think this could make an intriguing game if the sim encompassed all of the types of naval combat that actually took place, rather than just focusing on ironclad vs ironclad battles. Those evenly-matched heavyweight fights attract the most attention, but the majority of encounters were asymmetrical to some extent - CSS Arkansas's sortie down the Yazoo, disabling the US ironclad Carondelet and then chasing the unarmored gunboats Tyler and Queen of the West before running the gauntlet of the entire Union fleet to reach Vicksburg - plenty of gaming potential there. Timberclads, cottonclads, blockade runners, steam frigates, forts, Laird Rams - this could be great fun with the added bonus that more people are familiar with the conflict itself, even if not on the particulars of the naval tactics employed. Add in a campaign possibility of Anglo/French intervention and then you have HMS Warrior and Gloire in the mix as well! :yummy:
Ok, Ok , everyone here wins, I apologize for my conduct. I was successful I think in what I came here for and have learned alot of things previously unknown to me. I think I will go about my way now, goodbye.
Is the game worthwhile? Yes. Buy it.
Ok guys I bought it, as I was inputting the the details my wife was badgering me to feed the dog, then she asks what are you doing ? buy the game dear, how much is it ? $64, you're paying that much for a game, don't worry I'm paying for it out of my own money (I have money put aside from my pay in to another account) but I neglected to tell her that with the exchange rate it's going to cost $84. oh well this kind of little white lie is better than having a mistress.
I think this could make an intriguing game if the sim encompassed all of the types of naval combat that actually took place, rather than just focusing on ironclad vs ironclad battles. Those evenly-matched heavyweight fights attract the most attention, but the majority of encounters were asymmetrical to some extent - CSS Arkansas's sortie down the Yazoo, disabling the US ironclad Carondelet and then chasing the unarmored gunboats Tyler and Queen of the West before running the gauntlet of the entire Union fleet to reach Vicksburg - plenty of gaming potential there. Timberclads, cottonclads, blockade runners, steam frigates, forts, Laird Rams - this could be great fun with the added bonus that more people are familiar with the conflict itself, even if not on the particulars of the naval tactics employed. Add in a campaign possibility of Anglo/French intervention and then you have HMS Warrior and Gloire in the mix as well! :yummy:
You have somewhat extreme choices when it comes to simulating Ironclads in the 1850-1890 period. Some isolated battles would be fun (HMS Warrior versus anything would be pretty neat), but to get close to simulating the ACS as a naval war you would have to have a powerful campaign engine that understood all about rivers and currents and logistics and the labor to assemble vast fortifications, morale, disease and so on....One good thing about the naval wars of 1890-1922 is that they can be simplified and still make some sense, though the Dardenells campaign could be nearly as hard to simulate as the ACS.
Vigilante
11 Aug 06, 08:02
Good points, but I trust that Norm & Co. would be up to simulating the danger of getting stuck in shallow water, slowed by the current, being deprived of top-quality coal, & etc. You can't actually simulate everything precisely, and if you could it wouldn't be much fun for most people. :)
I would love to see a wide variety of ironclad and predreadnaught ships simulated, together with a robust scenario builder utility - a naval miniature wargame with 3D miniatures. And if Norm ever set his mind to an interlocking "Total War" style Age of Rifles game, I'd be in heaven!
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