What a Cracker!!

[Hinchinbrooke]

Okay, so I've been using computer generated scenarios just to get a feel for the thing. Anyway, tonight I've been enjoying a large cruiser action/tussle. What with the headphones on and trying to cross the "T"!! Tremendous fun (even with one CTD............. resolved by reloading.......... keep saving I guess). With large snaking lines of smoke belching behemoths, I can almost visualize Jutland. Do I see HMS Tiger in my future? I hope so.

Thanks!!:D

[Roberts]

Okay, so I've been using computer generated scenarios just to get a feel for the thing. Anyway, tonight I've been enjoying a large cruiser action/tussle. What with the headphones on and trying to cross the "T"!! Tremendous fun (even with one CTD............. resolved by reloading.......... keep saving I guess). With large snaking lines of smoke belching behemoths, I can almost visualize Jutland. Do I see HMS Tiger in my future? I hope so.

Thanks!!:D

The cruiser battles can be pretty wild, with torpedos zipping all over. I don't bother crossing the T since this tends to get your lead ship nearly as shot up as the crossed lead ship. A tactic that seems to work against the AI is to work it out so that your "lead" ship is fartherest from their line (you end up in a line of bearing if you combine your turns properly). Then AI shoots at more distant 'lead' ships while you put your ships on fire at closest.

Yeah...I'd like to see the Big Cats and the Fifth Battle Squadron...of course at about 5-10 knots faster and effective ranges 3-4 times greater, most Jutland era engagements would look pretty different from these battles.

[Lempereur1]

ANd people keep saying that this game was not going ot be any fun.....:)

[WallysWorld]

I'm pretty ticked off at Jim and Norm!

I received in the mail and had installed Take Command's "2nd Manassas" just hours before I downloaded "Distant Guns!". I was really looking forward to playing it, but I haven't even touched it since I installed "Distant Guns!".

Thanks a lot, Jim and Norm:D

[Daniel Sturgis]

I'm pretty ticked off at Jim and Norm!

I received in the mail and had installed Take Command's "2nd Manassas" just hours before I downloaded "Distant Guns!". I was really looking forward to playing 2nd Mannasas, but I haven't even touched it since I installed "Distant Guns!".

Thanks a lot, Jim and Norm:D

I was getting good at Red Orchestra and then this very neato game turned up...Thanks a lot.

[mbv]

Yup, playing Oblivion has gone to, errr, well Oblivion since this came out. I also bought 2nd Manassas recently and that has bitten the dust too after getting half way through the historical linked scenarios. A battery of puny field artillery just doesn't compare with a full on divisional broadside :p

[Daedalus]

Yea, I was just thinking of the games that are laying dormant on my Drive. And I am just playing the Demo! I might as well do an hour of uninstall when I get the Full version.

[Daniel Sturgis]

The cruiser battles can be pretty wild, with torpedos zipping all over. I don't bother crossing the T since this tends to get your lead ship nearly as shot up as the crossed lead ship. A tactic that seems to work against the AI is to work it out so that your "lead" ship is fartherest from their line (you end up in a line of bearing if you combine your turns properly). Then AI shoots at more distant 'lead' ships while you put your ships on fire at closest.

Yeah...I'd like to see the Big Cats and the Fifth Battle Squadron...of course at about 5-10 knots faster and effective ranges 3-4 times greater, most Jutland era engagements would look pretty different from these battles.

You mean Splendid Cats.

[Tanyrhiew]

Its been a long time....

Finally a tactical big gun simulation in 3D complete with campaign to replace good old Taskforce 1942...

Right, back to getting my Imperial Russian Backside kicked around the pacific.

Before I leave the wardroom, may I propose a toast?

"The StormEagle Two, May God bless all who sail in her!"

Raise your glasses gentleman, and drink to them with three times three!

<hint>Jutland</hint>

Regards

Tanyrhiew

[Bloodstar]

<hint>Jutland</hint>

I've heard that with Distant Guns 2 you will get a cup of original cocoa that UK officers drank during the Jutland night battle... mmmm... :yummy:


Mario

[Lempereur1]

Gentleman,

You humble us...:o

The feeling I got the first time I saw the planks splatter, spin out of control and splash into the sea!

Goose pimples covered me from head to toe! I knew right then we really had something special.

[Hinchinbrooke]

I knew right then we really had something special.

Naval sims are the perennially poor children of the sim/wargame world. There are more viable tank "games" out now than titles that deal with the hazards of life/wartime at sea.................. and "tanking" is considered a niche also. Odd, when you think of the manpower/families involved in maintaining the great fleets of the 20th Century........... and the terrific struggles that those fleets saw.

Despite the occasional quirk............... bring on DG2!!

Jutland?:D

[Lempereur1]

We choose to take the bottom up approach to build a 3D engine for historical gaming. At the same time we were building the Naval version of the Distant Guns Engine, we were building the hooks for all the rest!
Naval, Air, and Land!

The approach must be a generic one at start. The 3D engie should not care what the object is, just where its at, where its going next, what rules it is using for its locomtion, and what model is assigned to it!

On top of that the differences are added. Water, water line, which varies depending on the wave action, speed of movement and gyrations of the model itself, model, damage texturing, etc. We had a 19th century land combat engine 3 years ago! But had we done that first, the building blocks to a successful Naval Engine would be harder to retrofit.

Ahhh, I love this job!

:)

[Lempereur1]

Its amazing how some sites cover only Air Sims...

[Daedalus]

I have to agree with you on this, One should cover all sims as it is a benefit to all when that is done.

I am going to have to quit reading this forum as it is making me nutz watching all have a blast playing this game. Oh well thats life I guess.
Has anyone posted screen shots of in the game? That I would love to see.

[Lempereur1]

We just added am ingame screen shot feature!

(actually, it was already there, but we turned if off!)

[WallysWorld]

We just added am ingame screen shot feature!

Woo! Woo!

That's all I have to say.

[Rhetor]

We just added am ingame screen shot feature!

(actually, it was already there, but we turned if off!)

And how do we do it?

[Ironhand]

Ah I wish I knew. Just finished the demo battle. That last Russian cruiser, slowly listing to port. On fire, dead engines, dead gun crews. Shell splashes from the four closest Japanese cruisers surrounding her. ( Good thing I guess they never launched torpedoes. With Japanese ships on both sides.), hit after hit.....

After she finally rolled over, took an age, I checked the ammo on the cruisers. All of them were out of the heavy stuff.

And, that surround sound:laugh:

[weequayx]

exactly, ironhand.

[Ironhand]

Exactly what? Ships sink rather slowly, baring something catostrophic. Shell splashes are dead on. Damaged ships show a decent amount of damage. The concussion wave and pieces of the deck flying up are a nice touch. The ships even burn.
One does not need extraneous eye candy to enjoy this game. The ships look like the ships they represent.

In no way, shape, or form are they anywhere near stone age.

[Lempereur1]

We kinda thought that they were right on the money...:o

[Ironhand]

Never have played one that looked this good. It just might replace Action Stations! as my favorite;)

[WallysWorld]

Exactly what? Ships sink rather slowly, baring something catostrophic. Shell splashes are dead on. Damaged ships show a decent amount of damage. The concussion wave and pieces of the deck flying up are a nice touch. The ships even burn.
One does not need extraneous eye candy to enjoy this game. The ships look like the ships they represent.

In no way, shape, or form are they anywhere near stone age.

Nicely put!

I still don't understand what his concept of 'stone age' graphics is. :(

[Daedalus]

Nicely put!

I still don't understand what his concept of 'stone age' graphics is. :(

I do not think it is the game, I think some are angry and are lashing out at the game because they can not afford it.
I can not afford it but I do not take it out on the game. Some try to get back by trashing the game.
Game forums are full of replies that are along these lines.
This is the only reason that makes sense to me as the graphics are great in the game.

[Ironhand]

I do not think it is the game, I think some are angry and are lashing out at the game because they can not afford it.
I can not afford it but I do not take it out on the game. Some try to get back by trashing the game.
Game forums are full of replies that are along these lines.
This is the only reason that makes sense to me as the graphics are great in the game.

In the Sorry guys, It's two expensive thread he says it should be freeware.
Lot's of attacks on everyone too.

And the desire for an unbeleivable realistic physics engine. Steel Beast Pro Personal has an engine realistic enough to be used to train soldiers. It's also $125. Imagine how much Distant Guns world cost then.

[WallysWorld]

Steel Beast Pro Personal has an engine realistic enough to be used to train soldiers. It's also $125. Imagine how much Distant Guns world cost then.

At $125, I would have paid about $145 CAD. And put myself right into the psyche ward if I paid that much. :clown:

But for those that did, I won't call them 'brainwashed' or anything of the short. If they like Steel Beasts:PE, so be it. :)

[mbv]

For $125 I would expect DG to come complete with a full size replica combo ships wheel/compass/rangefinder/gunnery controller, a fleet commanders period repro uniform of your choice, a copy of The Tide at Sunrise by the Warner's and either a bottle of Sake or Vodka. Now that would be value for money :laugh:

[weequayx]

Everyone has there opinions apparently I'm not allowed to have mine , since mine is being contested by about everyone in this forum. Yea you can say graphics are great, that means nothing to nobody, its an opinion. Yes I will restate the extreme obvious THE GRAPHICS ARE STONE AGE and then some probably precambrian lol. I do not need to compare it to anything I can tell you my opinion just like you say the graphics are extraordinary. They fit the games mechanics yes and are decent for it but still they are nothing to boast about and take such pride in like everyone here does.

[Dogbert]

I completely fail to see your problem. You stated your opinion, fine. Everyone else has stated their opinions. You disagree. This does not make anyone who disagrees with you brainwashed zombies, it just means you have different opinions. You seem to treat every opposing statement as a personal attack.

[weequayx]

when my opinions are being taken as and used to mock me or be little me that has crossed the line as ironhand and others have.

[WallysWorld]

Not only that, but he's keeps on harping about the demo restrictions, the stone age graphics and so on.

Fine weequayx, you wrote what you wanted to say about DG.

But what else do you want from this forum?

[weequayx]

Not only that, but he's keeps on harping about the demo restrictions, the stone age graphics and so on.

Fine weequayx, you wrote what you wanted to say about DG.

But what else do you want from this forum?

Why does it matter If I harp on? Thats exactly what I was saying, I have my opinions you have yours, have I specifically gone after you wallysworld and said that you keep on praising the graphics? No because I know what you think and do not have to waste the time to reiterate the fact to everyone.

[WallysWorld]

weequayx, I have nothing against you or anyone else giving their opinion? But I still don't understand what you want from the posters here on this forum.

The majority of us on this forum are discussing the full game and campaign itself.

[Porkchop]

Weequay, give it rest mate. It's a game. Only a game. Open your front door, there's a world waiting out there.

[Daedalus]

Everyone has there opinions apparently I'm not allowed to have mine , since mine is being contested by about everyone in this forum. Yea you can say graphics are great, that means nothing to nobody, its an opinion. Yes I will restate the extreme obvious THE GRAPHICS ARE STONE AGE and then some probably Precambrian lol. I do not need to compare it to anything I can tell you my opinion just like you say the graphics are extraordinary. They fit the games mechanics yes and are decent for it but still they are nothing to boast about and take such pride in like everyone here does.

No one here is not letting you have your say, but what do you think the outcome will be ,you can not go into a forum for a game and make it like you have and not get a response as these.

Constructive post are not an issue, just read you will see. Then compare what you have posted.
Now I will give you that you may have not meant it to sound as it did.
But try working with everyone instead of confronting and you will see a change.
Well at least that is my thought on the matter. For what it is worth.

[weequayx]

If you can read any of my latter posts in the its to exspensive for me guys :( thread you'll see that I want to stop arguing and the debating to just stop. I keep on getting refered to and mocked or made look simple by certain people here that want to get the last word.

My purpose was to come here and make my problems with the game and its marketing apparent , I believe I achieved that. So like I just said i'm done and hopefully so are the others.

[WallysWorld]

Okay, I agree.

weequayx had said his opinion about DG.

Let's end this particular debate about weequayx's opinion and continue on discussing DG itself.

[weequayx]

Does anyone know if the bow or stern only sinkings are even modeled in this game? I'm refering to a titanic style sinking without the break. Or the opposite stern first.? if so can a screen be posted.

[WallysWorld]

Does anyone know if the bow or stern only sinkings are even modeled in this game? I'm refering to a titanic style sinking without the break. Or the opposite stern first.? if so can a screen be posted.

Well I hit the Chin Yen with a port sten torpedo and could swear that I saw the ship list to port and the bow rise a little as it took on water. After ten minutes or so, it turned turtle and sank. Sorry no screenshots as that was a week ago.

[weequayx]

I've seen similar to what you speak wally , I'm talking a full forward or backward tilt propellers in the air.

[WallysWorld]

Nope, can't say I have.

[Ironhand]

Not only that, but he's keeps on harping about the demo restrictions, the stone age graphics and so on.

Fine weequayx, you wrote what you wanted to say about DG.

But what else do you want from this forum?

I wonder what age these are:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/tsushima/cover-art/gameCoverId,45643/

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/NavCamp/Tsushima/Screen_1.jpg

More than 20 years seperate the two

[saddletank]

Interesting that the Russian fleet disposition in the HPS game is nothing like the Russian Tsushima dispositions in DG.

[WallysWorld]

Like I wrote before, John Tiller's Tsushima interested me, but the graphics...

[Dogbert]

You didn't miss out on much...

[Ironhand]

You didn't miss out on much...

I wish I payed more attention to this before I bought Jutland:laugh:

http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/jutland/page6.asp

Battle damage in Jutland affects both firepower and speed pretty much proportionally, with ships generally losing propulsion at 25 percent effectiveness. Yet there were many instances during the battle, especially with light ships, where ships lost mobility but still had most of their guns. The converse was also true

Torpedo damage is also oversimplified with no differentiation between ships like the pre-Dreadnought SMS POMMERN, which had little protection and was sunk by one torpedo, and the Battle Cruiser SMS SEYDLITZ, whose torpedo bulkheads and greater compartmentalization allowed it to take a torpedo hit with only a small degradation in capability.

It's ok for what it does. But it could of been so much more. I was looking for Action Stations WW1, so I set myself up for a let down.

[Dogbert]

To some extent I think it's down to a fundamental conflict in taste between those who want their computer wargames to be almost exact clones of boardgame rules, but with AI and less paperwork, and those who want to cram in as much detail as possible now that we have a CPU to do the bookkeeping.

[Lempereur1]

We think that a true 3D environment, managed properly, eliminates almost all of the abstractions that you have to introduce in a 2 D style wargame.

The fact that we are using a unique damage model to determine the physics of the ship models is a direct result of a dramatic reduction in abstraction.

The ability to introduce, track, and physically resolve every shot in the game is both remarkable and exciting!

The ship sinking model is the best feature in the game!

[Dogbert]

But inevitably, some people are going to think that the game sucks bebause it is too twitchy, or too realtime, or too whatever their pet peeve is... without even giving it a try. People are weird that way.
There are probably a few crusty grognards sitting around wishing that all this new-fangled 3d would go away, and that someone would make a computer moderated version of their favourite naval boardgame instead.

[saddletank]

There will always be those types. Eventually, like the dinosaurs they will become extinct and the concept of converting a board game with cardboard counters and hex maps to a computer screen will seem so quaint and old fashioned.

I love 3D real time, I played RTW for ages because it was one of the few games that 'satisfied' me in this respect even though as a representation of ancient warfare it sucked big time :)

[Daniel Sturgis]

But inevitably, some people are going to think that the game sucks bebause it is too twitchy, or too realtime, or too whatever their pet peeve is... without even giving it a try. People are weird that way.
There are probably a few crusty grognards sitting around wishing that all this new-fangled 3d would go away, and that someone would make a computer moderated version of their favourite naval boardgame instead.

A few years ago, I would have liked computer versions of Clash of Arms' various naval games. In some ways they are nicely detailed, but now that DG is pioneering a novel and interesting approach, I'll be very happy to do all my naval gaming in various versions of DG. I kind of hope the game system doesn't jump straight to Jutland, but does more hypothetical, mediterreanian-oriented things in the 1900-1915 range first (for example). A hypothetical France vs Italy naval war in about 1909-1913 could be fun. With Italy expanding in the Med, and Great Britain reducing its forces there, it might be an interesting set of campaigns.

[Vigilante]

Eventually, like the dinosaurs they will become extinct....

I don't want to be extinct! :surprise: I love DG - this is the computer naval game I've always wanted, I'm a fan, a booster, even. But unless it is expanded to cover every major warship of the 1885-1905 era, from every navy, with a 3D world encompassing the entire globe, there will always be situations that I can only game with miniatures. :) And even if the wonderful expansion I described would come to pass, I'd still keep a few miniatures around. The pleasure of crawling around on the floor with kids or grandkids and making sound effects to accompany dice rolls is not entirely related to precise simulation. :p

[Daniel Sturgis]

There will always be those types. Eventually, like the dinosaurs they will become extinct and the concept of converting a board game with cardboard counters and hex maps to a computer screen will seem so quaint and old fashioned.

I love 3D real time, I played RTW for ages because it was one of the few games that 'satisfied' me in this respect even though as a representation of ancient warfare it sucked big time :)

RTW is a strangely satisfying game. It may not be very convincing overall as a recreation of the ancient world (I played a lot of Barbarian Invasion recently), but the tactical universe is coherent. I recall with fondness the campaign where my "Decoy Army" of veteran Ex-Slave Spearmen managed to defeat a Hunnish force almost half their size. Because the battle happened in dense woods (and in the winter), I spent a lot of time with the camera sort of crouching down with the troops (as it were) as they scanned the snowy forest for Huns. We were just your average Goths and wannabe Avars and Alans so fighting the Huns was inherently frightening and the visual world made it even scarier.

Anyway......yeah 3d with some kind of temporal reality is pretty cool.

[saddletank]

I don't want to be extinct! :surprise: I love DG - this is the computer naval game I've always wanted, I'm a fan, a booster, even. But unless it is expanded to cover every major warship of the 1885-1905 era, from every navy, with a 3D world encompassing the entire globe, there will always be situations that I can only game with miniatures. :)

No no no... miniatures is fine. Better than a PC game IMHO because it is an inherently social activity that involves your friends, beer and pizza which has to lift it above and beyond any online (but essentially lonely) computer game.

I was talking about that strange breed the cardboard counter wargamers who want to see computerised versions of their board games. To me that is just plain odd - I'd much rather sit around a table with another friend and play a game than play the same game alone vs some dodgy AI.

[SunScream]

Friends. I remember them. Last seen early nineties, I think.

Used to do ASL, Gulf Strike, Agean Strike, Aces High, Air Superiority, Russo-Japanese War: Tsushima & Port Arthur (Tsesarevich was stung with a -4 to hit due to ammunition hoist problems never mentioned anywhere else that I can find), Harpoon, 2nd Fleet, 6th Fleet, Hells Highway, StarFleet Battles. Also AD&D, Traveller and Star Wars RPG ("Morons From Outer Space - They Came, They Saw, They Went To Dagobar").
All long since ended, although I do wonder whether Brian still has the counter position notes from the last battle of Imperium we played - we could carry on fifteen years later. If I knew where he lived now.

I have a wall of wargames.

[Lempereur1]

The board wargames will always hold a place in hearts. Converting board wargames to the PC and then make it fun is a tall order. I have worked on a few, with King Maker being the best.

[Daedalus]

The board wargames will always hold a place in hearts. Converting board wargames to the PC and then make it fun is a tall order. I have worked on a few, with King Maker being the best.


Yes, board Wargames, I have a Metal cabinet full of them. I still have one my Grandfather got me back in the late 60,s at a univirsty book store where he was the main man. Luftwaffe I think is the name of it. Panzer Leader , Tobruk, and the list goes on. I still get them out and play with my sons when they are home.
I never though how much a part of me they where till one day I started to put them in a Yard sale my wife was having.
One my Wife said absaluty no she said. And I just could not get my self to get rid of them. That was years ago,but I still have them, and on the shelvs about them I have the first computer war games, for the Commodor and the TRS 80 and my Amiga. I still have the computers lol.

But they have been such a big part of my life that there is no way I can get rid of them. I do not even think that someone could come with a bag of money and it would help. Your right they are in our gamer Hearts to stay.

[Lempereur1]

I love all games!

Big ones, like War in Europe...
Small ones like 100 Days....

I have over 1800 board wargames in my collection and well over $50,000 worth of miniatures.

I love them all. Each type has its appeal. My son use to go with me to conventions and run around the show making all kinds of trades!

One day he came back with a handful of ME 109s and said "Dad, look what I got for Battleground Shiloh!"

Ahhh I need more stuff.......I need more stuff......


I will always need more stuff!

[Daedalus]

All I can say is that we have to change and move forward , I like the graphics and the models and damage is one of the most awesome parts of the game.

If we did not move forward we would still be playing these games on a green or orange screen reading the text moving clips around on a board. Just a big data base .

I like the way war games are going and just like this one. The board games are still there for the ones who want them and there are companys still making them so it should not be hard for the games to be found and played. But I think that they will change soon as that is what the public wants . It give us a sense of real. And a challange that does not just come down to the luck of the dice roll that we use to have. It was great for it's time but now we can work out the ballistics in a game to the type of ship or plane or bunker just almost like we where there.
Now that is exciting to me!

I have nothing againsted the ones who like those type of games. I like them, and they are still fun. But I like the new 3D type we have now better.
And I have been gaming for years and years so not all of us are stuck on the old type, in fact quite a few of us and the ones who build these games are the ones who are the moving force behind what is coming out.

[Lempereur1]

I beileve that Norm and I took 2D PC wargaming about s far as it could go with The Operational Art of War. The 2D hex based system forces abstractions when it comes combat resolution. It amounts to range estimation, weapons table lookup, and then combat chart resolution based on the target.

The great thing about Distant Guns 3D wargaming is that each and every shot is fired, introduced into the game, moved across a real life trajectory, and then checked to see if it actuall hits something along the way! If it does hit something, teh amount of energy and thumph left in it is compared with the actual thickness of the hull or deck ot see how much penatration is achieved. Once in ahwile, the shell actually continues on and blows a hole out the other side of the ship!

Alot of people have not noticed this. Bullethead was the first to spot this.

If everything in the game is represented in a One to One scale, you can achieve ultra-realistic ballistics results.