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Gary McClellan
13 May 06, 01:05
Moving this discussion down, since we were rather abusing poor Jim's opponants wanted post (sorry Jim!! :surprise: ))

Going back to the thread (http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40920), to pick up on the discussion.

Over in the Napoleonic Wargames Club, there's arisen over the course of time a set of "house rules" known as the MoE3 rules (after the annual Master of Europe Tourney they hold, where they were formalized.

In short, they are


Master of Europe Tournament Rules
M - MELEE
M.1 All melée combat takes place in an Embedded Melée Phase within the player turn. The player may move and/or fire as many units as he wishes, setting up his melée combats for the turn. He then executes ALL melée combats. He may then move and/or fire any units still eligible to do so, but may not conduct any further melée combat for the remainder of the turn.

M.2 Melée attacks against skirmishers (if numbering less than 100), wagons, and/or leaders may be conducted at any time during the turn. Overruns by charging cavalry can occur BEFORE the embedded melee phase.

M.3 Charging cavalry may still melée multiple hexes in one turn, but the first two of these melées must take place within the embedded Melée Phase. For example, charging cavalry MUST initiate their first melee within the melee phase. It may then attack a second hex BEFORE melees involving other units are initiated. In other words, charging cavalry can conduct two (2) melees BEFORE all other melees are conducted. This allows cavalry an opportunity (though limited) to penetrate and cut off retreat routes. AFTER all other melees are done, then charging cavalry can undertake their third and fourth melees if they desire. After the initial melee, attacking cavalry can move through clear terrain, overrun skirmishers, artillery, and wagons without restriction. These actions do not count as melees. Cavalry intending to conduct such melée attacks must, obviously, charge BEFORE the embedded Melée Phase.

S – SKIRMISHERS

S.1 Skirmishers in clear terrain must remain within 3 hexes of any unit of their brigade when an enemy unit is in sight and is within 20 hexes.

S.2 Skirmishers that are in the open may use any bde of their division to be attached to if all of the formed infantry of their bde is destroyed.

S.3 Skms may melée other skms, artillery, or wagons and/or unaccompanied leaders without restriction. However, skms can only melee formed units (ordered or disordered) if the units are of equal or less strength than the attacking skms.

S.4 Skirmishers that are deployed in the open at the beginning of a scenario may remain in place or may advance for cover. If they advance towards the enemy without formed inf they must make it to cover in one move.

C – CAVALRY

C.1 Cavalry may not charge into covered terrain (villages, towns, woods, marshes, chateaux, etc.). They may however continue a charge-melee into one hex of covered terrain but the first melee must have occurred against a noncovered terrain hex. Cavalry may charge across hedges, embankments, and streams.

MISCELLANEOUS

1. Artillery may not enter any chateau hex unless forced by combat to retreat into a chateau. If this occurs, then the artillery cannot unlimber.

2. Leaders and supply wagons will not be used to take enemy objective hexes or to prevent the retreat of enemy units.

5. Squares: Squares are not allowed to be formed in (or move into) covered terrain. If the cavalry can't get to you why form square?

6. ZOC's and Retreats: Individual officers and wagons can never be used to prevent retreats.

7. Units may be voluntarily removed from the map board without penalty unless those units would be isolated with zone of control (if zoc extended beyond the map edge).




In the mentioned thread, Arkon asked if the exploitations these rules are meant to fix will be taken care of in future patches. Some of them already have been, and some probably will be at some point. For instance, as memory serves, you can no longer use leaders to block retreat (they'll get overrun). (That said, since I play so many HPS series, I may have them scrambled at this point). Also, Napoleon's Russian Campaign and Waterloo both have reduced movement, which is the best fix for this kind of thing. (less mobility leaves less room to exploit). I'd say more, but then Rich and Sgt_Rock would come to Oklahoma and loot and pillage my house, and do unspeakable things to me (like make me listen to Country Music).

That said, these house rules are only a "suggestion" and I don't personally care for house rules. I do look for opponants who play in a basically historical style, but remembering things like the "embedded melee" rule gets tedious.

arckon
13 May 06, 01:25
My apologies Jim did not mean to hijack your thread.

rahamy
13 May 06, 09:40
That said, these house rules are only a "suggestion" and I don't personally care for house rules. I do look for opponants who play in a basically historical style, but remembering things like the "embedded melee" rule gets tedious.

Ditto for me...I've got enough to remeber as it is! :nuts:

KG_RangerBooBoo
13 May 06, 11:03
I'd say more, but then Rich and Sgt_Rock would come to Oklahoma and loot and pillage my house, and do unspeakable things to me (like make me listen to Country Music).

Oklahoma? Is there that much to loot and pillage in a sod hut? :laugh:

I don't bother with too many house rules either as I usually end up being the one to forget one or two of them. Usually just stick to a skirmisher leash and no cavalry charges into obstructed terrain.

Jim Hall
13 May 06, 15:05
Gents
The game can become "Blitzkrieg" especially with an experienced player against a beginner. These Rules help the game at least get to the halfway point before a capitulation. I only play Nappy and a little ACW I find 1776 etc. is a little like mud wrestling:shock:

Sgt_Rock
18 May 06, 18:57
Oklahoma? Is there that much to loot and pillage in a sod hut? :laugh:

I don't bother with too many house rules either as I usually end up being the one to forget one or two of them. Usually just stick to a skirmisher leash and no cavalry charges into obstructed terrain.

Mark - I love to PASS through OK but stop and do something there? :D

Ok, I have been through OK City three times, great place to stop for a meal! I have always had a good meal in OK.

My Uncle Bill lived in the Akron area outside of Tulsa. I visited him there in 1986.

And that was the last time I was in OK! Friendly folks and lots of things to do there actually. Like visit GARY the Panhandler!:smoke:

Ok - as to House Rules - I hate ZOC kills. I like to have some sort of rule that outlaws them. Its one of the most annoying parts of the game. I am hoping to work to get some change to the game engine in this dept. but oftentimes when you alter the game something else comes up.

I also hate seeing infantry advance on cavarly in the open unless in square.

KG_RangerBooBoo
19 May 06, 00:33
Ok - as to House Rules - I hate ZOC kills. I like to have some sort of rule that outlaws them. Its one of the most annoying parts of the game. I am hoping to work to get some change to the game engine in this dept. but oftentimes when you alter the game something else comes up.

I also hate seeing infantry advance on cavarly in the open unless in square.

I don't like seeing infantry advance on cavalry in the open either, unless they are disordered that is. I could see a commander being able to recognize the fact the cavalry is no condition to form for a charge and taking advantage of it.

Mike Cox
19 May 06, 12:31
My problem with house rules is that there are usually exceptions to the rule that are perfectly valid.

The cavalry example - I have a 900 man Austrian Bn in good order. There is a 150 horse squadron to my front. Why shouldn't I be allowed to march up and blast them into oblivion? What if it was a 500 man battalion? 300 horse? Do we need to suggest that infantry only can advance when they are 3x the strength of the horse? Do we take disorder into account?

Sure we could say apply common sense, but that could lead to disagreement. Better to let the engine and your generalship protect you. Support that cavalry troop, so if I do advance on it, you crush it with a charge, or move up and take it in the flank with some fire, etc.

I prefer to keep the house rules to an absolute minimum. A skirmisher leash of 3 hexes to the parent battalion (preferably traced at all times, and not through enemy formations).

I also try not to play regularly with people who are ZOC kill exploiters. I once played an alleged 'Embedded Melee' game with a ZOC'er and he knew the EM system so well, he fully exploited it much to my disadvantage.

I find EM cumbersome and generally unpleasant to play.

AlAmos
19 May 06, 21:26
Russian infantry charged cavalry at Borodino didn't they?

Squares were formations that could be adopted if threatened on three sides according to the 'regs', didn't matter if it was cav threat or not, or if the unit was in woods or on the moon.

Don't like house rules. I'm harder on myself attempting to play with a historical attitude than any house rule can be.