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Scully
18 Aug 03, 13:46
First, I want to thank Deltapooh for his comments and recommendation on ATF...I just received it Friday and it's a great sim.

After getting beat up a bit my first two tries at Death Valley Defense, I finally won on my third attempt. Thankfully I wasn't commanding real people.

What I noticed I needed help with, and am working on improving, is use of artillery. Does anyone have any recommendations for reading, I'll be taking a look at all the publications discussed in the "Books" thread, but wasn't sure if there was anything artillery specific I should look at.

Also, any thoughts on where I can go to get a better understanding of the different types of munitions and there uses?

Finally, on a separate topic, are there any plans to develop Korea scenarios?

Thanks for all your help,
Brian

Deltapooh
18 Aug 03, 17:18
FAS.org has some very good information on indirect fire support.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/indirect.htm

You can scroll down and find links to additional online resources.

You can also d/l FM 3-09.21, which is the latest TTP for field artillery battalions.

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-09.21/toc.htm

I think timing is very critical. This is especially true if you are employing artillery to suppress enemy positions in support of an ongoing operation, like a breach. Get your artillery into a good, SAFE, fire position at least five minutes prior to attack. As soon as the batteries arrive, order them to assume "Position Area". If you are going to suppress enemy positons, make sure the artillery arrives BEFORE your units get into the firing range of enemy units. (6km is the limit for most of the enemy's long range direct fire weapons).

It takes about 2-2:30 mins for the artillery battery to process and fire the first volley. If you order multiple volleys, successive rounds will arrive about every 45 seconds. The faster the artillery arrives over the enemy, the longer they will remain in suppress mode.

DPICM works well if you want to suppress a wide area. It's also very effective when employed in the converge mode against single vehicles. In converge, three volleys can suppress an enemy T-72S for several minutes, that's if it doesn't destroy it.

Keeping your artillery units alive is also a difficult task. Counter-recon makes it possible to keep the enemy's eyes off of your artillery. This means they can stay in one place for long periods of time, speeding up their fire mission process time.

Enemy recon elements are quite easy to kill if you can find them. Finding them is not too difficult either. Just use the LOS fan tool to find good observation locations. Then dispatch scout teams to check these areas out. They will quickly destroy the teams, then move on.

Another way to keep all your units alive is to kill the Enemy Artillery battalion's fire control vehicles, dubbed MT-LBs. If you can get eyes on the enemy artillery, just put artillery on the vehicles in the center of the enemy artillery position area. There are six of these vehicles per battalion. Kill them, and the battalion they are attached to will be useless. (Except maybe as easy targets for your tanks if attritioning the enemy is a mission objective)

Use artillery to suppress enemy Air Defense units prior to sending in air assets, particularly attack helicopters. Remember that helicopters can get chopped up by almost any enemy unit on the battlefield. So suppress any vehicle that has a 3-5 km range. This way you can get your helios close to kill enemy assets.

Scully
18 Aug 03, 21:52
Thanks for the tips. I'll take a look at the downloads you recommended. I did ok confusing the bad guys, but I didn't kill any or suppress too many. I'll have to keep trying different things with the artillery to find out what works best and when.

Brian

Pat Proctor
19 Aug 03, 11:20
DP did a great job with the artillery question. I don't know what I could possibly add.

As to your second question, keep your ear to the ground. There will be a couple of announcements in the coming weeks about upcoming ProSIM releases concerning our favorite Asian penninsula.

kbluck
19 Aug 03, 13:30
DPICM works well if you want to suppress a wide area. It's also very effective when employed in the converge mode against single vehicles. In converge, three volleys can suppress an enemy T-72S for several minutes, that's if it doesn't destroy it.

DP: Can you give me a specific procedure to accomplish this? I can't seem to reproduce it.

Using the T-72S tanks in your 73 Easting scenario, v.1.03:

I find a single battery volley of DPICM suppresses a tank for about 40 seconds --- not long enough for a follow-up volley to hit while still suppressed.

Three batteries --- whether all at once or staggered in time --- suppress it for about two minutes, which is exactly what you would expect if you multiplied 40 seconds times 3.

I'll make a prediction - 1 gun will suppress the tank for ( 40 / 6 ) = about 7 seconds. Let's go to the game to test my hypothesis...

Yep. Just about seven seconds. Staggered single shots about 5 seconds apart --- about 20 seconds total, what you'd expect from simple addition.

If my results are accurate, it implies that each battalion of artillery can only keep one tank completely suppressed at a time, given that it takes about 2:30 to shift targets. Putting one battery per tank on volley mode keeps them supressed about 4/5 of the time. Using the "one gun" volley method only suppresses a given tank about 1/7th of the time, and that total time actually falls inside its "reload/time to fire" cycle, so it is fairly likely that it would not have fired during that interval anyway.

Am I doing something wrong here?

--- Kevin

Deltapooh
19 Aug 03, 18:24
v1.03 might have adjusted the suppress mode. I haven't played ATF in quite some time. When I do, it's usually just to check for bugs in a scenario I'm designing.

In Iraq_Attack 1, I usually destroy the right infantry strongpoint, push a TF forward to breach a weak point in the enemy line just to the south and right of the PL ahead of the main belt. On several occassions, I usually let the A-10 or artillery take out the tanks and BRDM-2s. However, sometimes, that's not possible. So, I bring in the artillery to suppress one of the tanks located to the right, race the tanks forward to engage, create a small breach of the enemy belt, and establish a foothold in the enemy rear. This makes breaching a heck of alot easier.

The way I see it is after awhile, successive rounds cause the suppress time limit to increase because of numerous rounds. In most cases one battalion, firing DPICMs on converge should increase the time limit beyond forty seconds.

Again, this might have changed, or is a bug. (Once I was fired on by T-72S in suppress mode. Talk about shock!)