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amrcg
23 Apr 03, 06:43
Dear Captain,

The ATF help says the following about the LOS Fan:

>Note that in certain circumstances, a unitís view range may be >less or more than the normal maximum view range depicted in >the LOS Fan. Factors such as a unitís speed, unitís order >status, and visibility all effect the actual view range of a unit.

Could you detail this a little more. I often find myself under enemy artillery fire even after I have eliminated all enemy spotters in an extensive area around my forces. So it seems that enemy units are spotting me beyond the normal maximum view range. I say this because enemy artillery stops firing after my hummers eliminate a few more enemy spotters located somewhat beyond this limit. It would thus be useful to know what is the maximum of the maximum view range, and how does the view range vary with order status and speed.

Now some questions out of my ignorance for being an ammateur:
1) I have checked FM 101-5-1, APP-6 and MIL-STD-2525B and I could not find the symbol that consists of a concave line with short straight lines in front of it, the moddle one being a cross (it appears for example in the enemy SITTEMP in OBJ TEXAS, in mission Death Valley Task Force Attack).
2) Another symbology question. Near OBJ TEXAS in the above mission, there is an enemy strong point with "100" wrote inside. What does this "100" mean?
3) In the OPORD you describe enemy strength as x/y/z (e.g. "These MRB's are at apporximately 50 % strength with approximately a 8 / 12 / 10."). What do these numbers mean? In what FM can I find OPORD specification details like these?

Best regards,
Antonio
(still a demo player, but eager for his birthday to arrive in the beginning of June, so that he will be able to buy the complete game =))

Deltapooh
23 Apr 03, 07:49
Working the counter-recon operation for the Death Valley Attack mission is tough. Make sure to take out the recon team usually located on top of the hill southwest of AP CAT. There are also enemy infantry located in the hills along your southern boundary behind PL STEVE. (vic grid NO39321768) . These are tough to kill since they are protected by the CSOP. They to stay north, and not halt for too long.

The enemy occupies has good fields of view. There are also alot of places for the enemy to hide DRT units that can only be detected when you roll right up on them. It takes a careful counter-recon op to clear some space to place halt your units. Position your artillery so it's rounds can just cover OBJ TEXAS. Again though, it can be trial and error.

Captain Proctor offer more technical information.


I have checked FM 101-5-1, APP-6 and MIL-STD-2525B and I could not find the symbol that consists of a concave line with short straight lines in front of it, the moddle one being a cross (it appears for example in the enemy SITTEMP in OBJ TEXAS, in mission Death Valley Task Force Attack).

It's called nicknamed a "Bear claw". It's the enemy battle position. It marks the general location and orientation of a unit in prepared position (aka dug in, likely with mines and tank ditches forward their location). In Death Valley Attack, the three Bear Claws you see represent a enemy platoon. The strange group of symbols that lead to these Bear Claw represent an enemy formation that breaks up to assume the desired defensive positions.


Another symbology question. Near OBJ TEXAS in the above mission, there is an enemy strong point with "100" wrote inside. What does this "100" mean?

The number in the middle of the strong point represents the estimated number of enemy infantry occupying the location. So in this case, your Intelligence officer (S-2) believes 100 enemy troops are occupying the strong point.


In the OPORD you describe enemy strength as x/y/z (e.g. "These MRB's are at apporximately 50 % strength with approximately a 8 / 12 / 10."). What do these numbers mean? In what FM can I find OPORD specification details like these?

If I'm not mistaken it means 8 tanks, 12 Armored personnel carriers (BMP-1/2/3 or BTR-60PB) and 10 BRDM-2s. The actual number can be above or below these figures.

FM 101-5 Staff Organization and Operations provide guidance for developing and interpreting the OPORD. You can download it here (http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/101-5/default.htm).

Pat Proctor
23 Apr 03, 12:19
DP just about hit everything.


Could you detail this a little more. I often find myself under enemy artillery fire even after I have eliminated all enemy spotters in an extensive area around my forces. So it seems that enemy units are spotting me beyond the normal maximum view range. I say this because enemy artillery stops firing after my hummers eliminate a few more enemy spotters located somewhat beyond this limit. It would thus be useful to know what is the maximum of the maximum view range, and how does the view range vary with order status and speed.

Different units have different base view ranges. Go to "Vehicle Specs" from the help menu to see the ranges. Here are a few things that affect the ACTUAL view range.

1. You can see units as unidentified to about twice your actual view range (representing dust signatures, and such)
2. If you are sprinting or firing you are easier to see
3. If you are dug in, in hold fire, or in defilade, you are harder to see
4. Units see much less to their rear than to their front. For most turreted vehicles, "front" is the turret direction.


It's called nicknamed a "Bear claw". It's the enemy battle position. It marks the general location and orientation of a unit in prepared position (aka dug in, likely with mines and tank ditches forward their location). In Death Valley Attack, the three Bear Claws you see represent a enemy platoon. The strange group of symbols that lead to these Bear Claw represent an enemy formation that breaks up to assume the desired defensive positions.

The reason this symbol isn't in the FM 101-5-1 is because it is soviet symbology, as is all of the symbology in the Enemy SITTEMP of most scenarios in ATF. This is how S-2's used to always draw enemy SITTEMP. It is falling out of favor in recent years, with CTC's transitioning to the Contemporary Operating Environment. It's no longer en vogue.

A roll up of these symbols can be found in Chapter 6 (I think) of the ATF User's Manual.

If you haven't bought the game yet (shame on you) you can download the BCT: Brigade Combat Team manual, chapter 6 (again, I think) at:

http://www.prosimco.com/patch.htm

It also has these symbols.

amrcg
23 Apr 03, 13:47
Thanks Captain!

>If you haven't bought the game yet (shame on you) you can >download the BCT:
Rest assured that I will buy it once version 1.02 is out or my birthday arrives (whichever comes first ;)). ATF is a must. I think that your work is amazing (despite the room that there is still for improvement) and I will be glad to contribute to keep you motivated and improving the simulation engine for AATF and other games that will follow. ;)

Best regards,
Antonio